6XC Peterson Brass?

[tomswede]

I would mostly agree. Most of the time when you see consistent shots out of good groups it is shooter related. BUT sometimes it could be something weird.
I would say several groups have a bug hole with a shot out. When ever I do that, I load 25 of the same load and go shoot five five shot groups and see what I got. was that shot lost to conditions, operator ect.. Now sometimes when you are seeing something like this and it is not the shooter. It is the bullet. Shoot another bullet. Berger 105 HVLD is one I could recommend and if the one shot that is always out goes away its them Hoaky Hornady bullets that have been coming apart. If you print the same groups with the Berger bullet I would look hard at yourself and bench set up.

I once had a freeky accurate 6XC 1-7 twist and I keep loosing shots horizontally at longer ranges and most would say wind ect. but I noticed it was always the same way and the wind did not cause it on some shots for sure. So I talked to a few guys who knew I was serious and it was not the wind and they instructed me that the vertical grip on my rifle and thumb hole stocks are known to cause unwanted horizontal so I changed how I was shooting the rifle and the problem went away. Now if it was out I call the wind did it.

The bullets for sure could cause fliers, but the consistent location of them are hard to explain as bullet caused.
If changing bullets I would say, stay away from Unforgiving VLD’s and go with Berger 105 Hybrids or 107 Sierras.

 

[Frankr]

Tom I hear that but I have been shooting the HVLD's in the 105's in the 6XC and the 115's in the 6XC for some time also shot 140's in 6.5, 150's in 270 . 168's in 7mm and I have never had a problem with them shooting well at all. I have a buddy shoots them in a 1-8 243 and he has shot a wide array of bullets but he will tell you its hard to beat the Berger for a accuracy. I really have never had a problem getting them to shoot GREAT in anything. Now the Hornady's they do not shoot as well as the Berger's and I also shoot them in several calibers and I also have found the Hornady's like to jump as much as .090 off they will not shoot in the .010 to .030 off like .040 and the farther you go the better they shoot. But the HVLD's I have never had a problem just load them up and they shoot.

Also I think Hoot said them bullets were Blem's ?

 

[Hoot]

I typed this in response to your earlier post but forgot to post it, so it may sound like I'm backtracking.

Tom, you are correct of course. That 5:30 thing is a demon that only I can wrestle, assuming I can identify the source . This statistically small sample experiment was me looking for a case prep regimen that would rise up above the others and convince me which will be my go-to standard for these Peterson Gen1 SRP brass. I found it interesting that despite the variations, they pretty much stayed around the same velocity and SD to a certain degree. I definitely need to come up with a solution for the high seating resistance as its deforming my bullets and making consistent COL's hard to control. If you look at the 5-shot average velocities for the different neck treatments:
2985
2987
2992
2985
2982
and throw the odd man 2967 out, That's pretty consistent. I realize that averages are already smoothed as opposed to the raw numbers, so you'd expect them to clump. Looking at the ES of all the actual individual shots and it was 54fps.

Back to the present: Shoot, someone else is typing as I am now...

Again, sage advice to shoot more of the best performing loads to get a better statistical sample. Tomorrow will be a perfect range day (upper 60's) but it is also unfortunately a work day. Saturday will be like the last one. 40s and windy. Boo, hiss.

I'll be back if and when I have more progress to report on. Hopefully not April.

Hoot

 

[Frankr]

Hoot it gets very cold down here also. I have set up and shot over a chrony at -25 Deg F and here with high Humidity that is very cold. By the time you set up go to the car and get the battery and plug it in you only get about a 1/2 hour before the battery freezes. I know there is a battery that does not freeze, I am too lazy to look for one.
Think Sitka Incinerator, I broke down and bought me one for hunting but I wear it at the range shooting and stay nice and warm.

 

[Hoot]

Hoot it gets very cold down here also. I have set up and shot over a chrony at -25 Deg F and here with high Humidity that is very cold. By the time you set up go to the car and get the battery and plug it in you only get about a 1/2 hour before the battery freezes. I know there is a battery that does not freeze, I am too lazy to look for one.
Think Sitka Incinerator, I broke down and bought me one for hunting but I wear it at the range shooting and stay nice and warm.

Thanks for the advice and consolation. I've never wanted to shoot so desperately as to go out in -25F, not even +25F, thank you kindly. My body has insulation and that combined with outerwear, I don't get body cold. I suffer from Raynauds and my hands and feet get cold easy, when the circulation shuts down to them. No amount of insulation will reflect back the heat from my blood when there's no blood in them. They turn a sickly waxy yellow and go numb. Good choice of states to settle down in, I know, but its so clean and beautiful compared to the inner ring suburb of Baltimore where I grew up. Another story..

I think the high neck tension, even at .2694 OD is a reflection of the thick neck walls in this affordable brass I chose. That doesn't have to be a problem, given my chamber produces .274 fired necks even after springback. A roomy chamber to say the least. My money has been paid and that's the lot I drew. I didn't come at the 6XC as a competition investment. I'm already overboard with my rimfire BR investment. The competition rimfire ammunition manufacturers should just give you the rig of your choice no matter how much it costs them. They'll get their investment back with interest in the price per box of ammo you have to pay in order to run with the big boys. nuff said...

I don't think turning the necks, so that I'm not stretching such a "thick rubber band" is the solution, though I have a neck turner in a drawer somewhere. I may have to go up to a .270 bushing or tweak the modded collet/mandrel die a little wider. Lots of options to ponder, both in bullet choices and brass prep over the long, cold, lonely, MN winter. If I didn't have an important commitment tomorrow at work, I'd definitely be taking a vacation day. Upper 60's is more my speed. Hopefully I get another chance or two before the long downward slide begins. Right now, we're still in the "roller coaster" part of Fall. It can seem like the end of the season and then a sudden upturn surprises you. I really want to try plated bullets inside shiny necks as my next experiment though that means having to run the OCW ladder again and I'm not sure I have enough case capacity left to get back up to ~2980, which my setup seems to like with these Hornady 108's. BTW, I do checks them for ogive length. So far (knock on wood) they've been pleasantly consistent.

04:30 is scowling at me from the bedroom. Gotta wind down so off the keys for now.

Hoot

 

[6MMsteve]

are u using a expander on the necks, my 6xc likes light nk tension, RDFs shoot good with 38 grs 4350 in the Peterson brass fireforming, but I also have some 6XC SRP brass loaded and ready, going to shoot those late this afternoon with some 105 Target Berger BT.....using my K&M expander mandrel on the new brass for now

 

[Hoot]

are u using a expander on the necks, my 6xc likes light nk tension, RDFs shoot good with 38 grs 4350 in the Peterson brass fireforming, but I also have some 6XC SRP brass loaded and ready, going to shoot those late this afternoon with some 105 Target Berger BT.....using my K&M expander mandrel on the new brass for now

Steve;
They come from the factory with an OD of .2694. Leaving them at that and seating a bullet changes the OD to .2710. So in theory, I'm not running a lot of tension. In practice, its a lot of tension. (see signature)

Causes not only variable seating depth results but this cup ring:

FWIW, the cup isn't skewed in the die, I took the picture a little off kilter. That ring, believe it or not, gets worse if I make repeated passes to try to get the bullet down into the case a little further. I can certainly expand the new necks a little bit and resize a little bigger than .2694.

I'm not looking for more work but do precision shooters lap their seating stem cup to more closely match their bullet profile, as a means of distributing the force bearing surface over a greater area? Forster doesn't give you a choice of cup profiles.

Hoot

 

[6MMsteve]

Steve;
They come from the factory with an OD of .2694. Leaving them at that and seating a bullet changes the OD to .2710. So in theory, I'm not running a lot of tension. In practice, its a lot of tension. (see signature)

Causes not only variable seating depth results but this cup ring:

FWIW, the cup isn't skewed in the die, I took the picture a little off kilter. That ring, believe it or not, gets worse if I make repeated passes to try to get the bullet down into the case a little further. I can certainly expand the new necks a little bit and resize a little bigger than .2694.

I'm not looking for more work but do precision shooters lap their seating stem cup to more closely match their bullet profile, as a means of distributing the force bearing surface over a greater area? Forster doesn't give you a choice of cup profiles.

Hoot

your just a smidge tight you may want to get the K&M expander they also have ground mandrels in .0005 increments I think, I know somebody does, but don't you have a lathe you can do that yourself, the new peterson brass I use the mandrel to expand the new brass then I load of course after I trim ect, you may want to go in and cham your seat cup also to get a longer bearing surface to match the profile of the bullet, does this make sense, you need to go .242 ID on the case mouth prolly 272 on the outside would be good EDIT I'm at .243 maybe 242 inside and 273 or 4 outtide, the peterson brass is almost perfect to shoot deprime, load and shoot without sizing my neck thickness on 25 measured cases was .014 to .0142 pretty dam good I could not believe it

 

[6MMsteve]

I loaded 50 of the new small primer pocket last night, with 37.6 H4350 and 105 Berger BT target bullets I seated them out to jam .020 on bolt close shot 3 groups at .310 .293 .263 with the new brass I'm tickled, I think I'm kinda learning to reload finally, all by reading Accurate Shooter forums and actually doing what they talk about, instead of just loading and hoping if this makes sense

 

[Hoot]

Thanks for the actionable intel Steve. A little good advice goes a long way with me. Lack of it in this caliber has relegated me to throwing ideas at the wall and seeing if they stick. I'd venture that my necks, as I've been using them up to now, are more than a smidge tight. I will give that a try. Yes, I do have a lathe downstairs and a nicer one at work, for those times that we need to fabricate parts we can't afford to wait for. Gotta keep the 911 dispatch center running 24/7. With groups like you reported, I'd be pleased as punch!

Hoot

 

[tomswede]

I typed this in response to your earlier post but forgot to post it, so it may sound like I'm backtracking.

Tom, you are correct of course. That 5:30 thing is a demon that only I can wrestle, assuming I can identify the source . This statistically small sample experiment was me looking for a case prep regimen that would rise up above the others and convince me which will be my go-to standard for these Peterson Gen1 SRP brass. I found it interesting that despite the variations, they pretty much stayed around the same velocity and SD to a certain degree. I definitely need to come up with a solution for the high seating resistance as its deforming my bullets and making consistent COL's hard to control. If you look at the 5-shot average velocities for the different neck treatments:
2985
2987
2992
2985
2982
and throw the odd man 2967 out, That's pretty consistent. I realize that averages are already smoothed as opposed to the raw numbers, so you'd expect them to clump. Looking at the ES of all the actual individual shots and it was 54fps.

Back to the present: Shoot, someone else is typing as I am now...

Again, sage advice to shoot more of the best performing loads to get a better statistical sample. Tomorrow will be a perfect range day (upper 60's) but it is also unfortunately a work day. Saturday will be like the last one. 40s and windy. Boo, hiss.

I'll be back if and when I have more progress to report on. Hopefully not April.

Hoot

The low velocity variation is not surprising, think about the amount of friction forcing the bullet trough the barrel, the neck friction ( and the corresponding energy/work variation) is a small contributor. For long range the SD is very important, ES does not really mean anything.

 

[Hoot]

The seating stem cup lapped out easier than I though it would. Contacts the ELD/VLD bullets I have, over an area of about 3/16 inch now, as opposed to the thin line it used to. 2 grits of Clover compound and 4 (un-dented) bullets from the pulled pile was all it took. Look forward to giving it a try. Too late to start in tonight. 04:30 gives no quarter.

Hoot