223 24" best bullet to blow up P Dogs?

[SSL]

Your best bet is your thoughts on buying a .223 bolt gun. Don't let the 1-9" twist you mentioned with the CZ bother you. I have a 1-8" 22" barrel that shoots 53-grain VMax bullets at 3,340 fps (true chrono) into little bitty holes. That twist eliminates the 50-grain SX bullets (though excellent bullets) since I have had them regularly blow up from barrels faster than 1-12". Both the 50-grain and 53-grain VMax bullets shoot just fine in the 1-8". A 24-26" barrel would safely get you very close or even exceed the 3,400 fps you seem to want.

 

[Damon555]

So...the best conclusion I can draw is that the internet is not a good reflection of reality.

Don't be so sure. Those 40 grain Vmax's are my go to bullet for p-dogs. My 223 AI, DPMS Bull 20 and Bushmaster 16" will launch that bullet quickly and accurately. I don't shoot the AR's much in the dog towns. I find myself wasting ammo on follow up shots.

This is a the usual outcome with the 40 Vmax at 250+ yards with a steady crosswind. Notice how much the bullet drifts?....That's the disadvantage of the lighter bullets.......I've learned to adjust for that no problem....out to about 300 yards. After that the 6mm's come into play.

 

[sdbob]

I don’t know how far your driving to hunt but go with multiple guns. Things happen. I never go without at least 4 guns, sometimes all the same caliber……just something to think about.

 

[David Milisock]

I think next year I'm going to try a PD shoot. I have a pencil barrel .204 ruger but got to thinking ammo is going to cost and I don't have brass for .204. I do have 3000 223 brass for my AR and Dillon xl650. I'm thinking of just getting a 24' Bull Barrel for my Colt 6920. I'm thinking I can probably get a .223 close to .204 or 22-250 performance.

So I'm shopping uppers.
-Rock River Arms 24 inch - Varmint A4 - 1/12 Twist - They claim sub MOA and good for 40-55gr

https://www.pkfirearms.com/rock-river-arms-24-inch-varmint-a4-112-twist-complete-upper

-Bullets? Overall the 53gr Vmax at 3450fps looks to buck the wind better than the 40s.

I compared
53 gr Vmax 2.90 BC at 3450 fps to
40 gr Vmax 2.00 BC at 3800 fps

Even though the 53 gr is slower it has 15.6" of wind drift vs 22.2" of the 40gr
and 572 FPE vs 341 FPE at 400 yards.

I read the 40gr is more explosive but that might only be at 100 yards. At some point they all have to loose that explosive POP on dogs. I don't know what ranges that occurs on with the 40s vs the 53s.

Another thing is heat, 3800fps with 40gr is going to heat up the barrels more than 3450 fps with the 53gr.

Never been on a Pdog shoot just starting to researching what will work best. I'm thinking 1/12 twist will get the most velocity out of the 53gr as long as they stablize well. Maybe I can push the 53s to 3500 fps in that 24" barrel.

I'm all ears on suggestions on bullets, powders, and the AR barrel.

What range will this be good for? I'm thinking maybe out to 400 yards. Would like to hear from people that have actually shot P dogs with a .223.

I would go with .204 or 22-250 but I have no brass or dies for it. Seems cheaper to stick with .223 and make the best of it.

Where are you going and what are the expected wind conditions?

 

[David Milisock]

No one burned up a 223 barrel in a weekend.

Build a bolt gun. Chasing brass on the prairie sucks. You don't need semi auto performance to shoot dogs. I can get you into a good barrel for pretty reasonably prices. I would get the 223 Ackley.

I have 50 vmax on sale. That's probably my choice of what I have left.

Hrndy V-max 22 Cal .224 50gr 100ct

Precision Rifle Shooting Accessories

theurbanriflemanstore.com

Hrndy V-max 22 Cal .224 53gr 100ct

Precision Rifle Shooting Accessories

theurbanriflemanstore.com

I use a brass catcher, then again, I'm a lazy old shit!

 

[urbanrifleman]

Here is another vote for the 53 gr Hornady v-max. Good BC for what it is (better than the flat base 50 and 55's), boat tail makes it easier to load and it blows up PDogs. I have been using these since they came out. Shoot about 1,000 of them a year.

I test varmint bullets on grape fruit. I have found that if it blows up a grapefruit, it will blow up a PDog. If it just punches thru a GF, no good on a Pdog. And who likes grapefruit anyway.

That is good to know.

So you see that a grapefruit is a good reflection of penciling ?

 

[AndrewB]

100% yes. FWIW, I will no longer use anything that does not have a plastic tip to speed up expansion. Lots of practical experience to back that up. Testing done at 100 and 300 yards. I also will put a white poster board behind the grapefruit to see how big the pieces of the bullet are that go through it so I will have some idea if the bullet blew up on impact or if sizable pieces are continuing downrange. A lot of prairie dogs are shot around oil filed equipment or cows and you do not want an expensive mistake. The purpose made plastic tipped varmint bullets are generally good. In terms of explosiveness I would say Hornady, then Nosler, then Sierra. For long range I use a 75gr eld Hornady which blows up well out to about 400-500 yards - but I am pushing those at 3400 FPS. 6mm I use the 108 ELD at about 3100 FPS which will cut them in half. Neither of those velocities are available in an AR platform. Nice to have them in a wind or for far away.

 

[B23]

For a explosive middle weight 22cal bullet the 55gr Sierra Blitzking is not only explosive on things but they are very accurate as well. The 53gr Vmax is probably my fav but the Sierra 55gr BK's would be a close second.

I've been shooting 53gr Vmax in my 9tw 223AI since Hornady first introduced them and they shoot crazy good in my rifle.

I'd highly recommend taking a 17HMR or 17WSM if you have one or the other. If you have both, take them. Inside of 200 yards I prefer to use my rimfires. Not only does it give your centerfire rifles a break but I find it more satisfying to pop them with a rimfire when they're inside of 200yds. The splat factor isn't as high but it can sometimes be a bit more challenging using a rimfire at those distances and they don't make nearly as much noise.

 

[Damon555]

6mm I use the 108 ELD at about 3100 FPS which will cut them in half.

I agree....As mentioned above take more than one rifle....mine are all different calibers though....204R, 223 AI, 6mmAR, 6XC and my newest addition (because I had lots of lonely 308 stuff!) a Browning X-Bold Varmint/Target 308....I was hoping to go twice this year but it looks like we'll have to wait.....It's not often that I get to drive 4500 miles. My little man is a great passenger and it's great quality time together!

 

[redrockranger]

100% yes. FWIW, I will no longer use anything that does not have a plastic tip to speed up expansion. Lots of practical experience to back that up. Testing done at 100 and 300 yards. I also will put a white poster board behind the grapefruit to see how big the pieces of the bullet are that go through it so I will have some idea if the bullet blew up on impact or if sizable pieces are continuing downrange. A lot of prairie dogs are shot around oil filed equipment or cows and you do not want an expensive mistake. The purpose made plastic tipped varmint bullets are generally good. In terms of explosiveness I would say Hornady, then Nosler, then Sierra. For long range I use a 75gr eld Hornady which blows up well out to about 400-500 yards - but I am pushing those at 3400 FPS. 6mm I use the 108 ELD at about 3100 FPS which will cut them in half. Neither of those velocities are available in an AR platform. Nice to have them in a wind or for far away.

I'd take a look at the Speer TNT line of bullets. They are devasting also.

 

[redrockranger]

I shot my first prairie dog in 1983. Been out many times since, with a few different shooters.
I have never seen an AR make a marksmen out of anybody.......

Make it a bolt gun.

 

[BobbyJ]

We just got back from our first trip
Out of two days we only had about 3 dogs that did like all the internet videos--we shot 40 and 50 Vmax 223--Many of the hits looked like they were in an old Western shootout --and were just journeymen stunt guys--Our 50g Vmax were chrono'd at 3200 and since we never had a shot under 300 just went in one side and a little apple size hole on the other--not much drama. So...the best conclusion I can draw is that the internet is not a good reflection of reality. I can say too that BC, bullet weight, etc velocity, etc all goes out the window when you are aiming at one 500 yds out--Hitting them is all that matters--wind, perhaps having to shoot IN to the sun of a morning,keeping an eye out for rattle snakes etc will play a much bigger part than all of the ballistic stuff in the end--Yes all of it has to go right but the many other factors are just as important if not more than the parts I worried over just like you. Before you go that is all you know to control--after you go you see that it was not as big a deal.
20 mph wind at 400-500 into the morning sun with adrenaline pumping is what to expect
Bullet drop , barrel twist, bullet weight, barrel length, powder choice--not so much

After the first trip ---you get home and see looking back the Many things it takes to get them
but the best part is it will be the most fun you have ever had with a firearm--period! No matter how few or how many you get, that will be the least of it.
You are in for a treat no matter what happens

Thanks! I really appreciate the honesty. Yea You tube is full of fake non realistic BS its hard to know what to believe till you try it. I better bring my walking boots for rattle snakes!

Yea at this point I don't know enough to know what I don't know. So I focus on details like the gun and ammo first. Now I'm thinking about getting a 20 caliber upper 20 Practical. I have like 100 guns but only one .204 in 1/10 twist with pencil barrel and just realized I don't have much ammo for it and no brass. So when I go I need ammo. Prices on .204 higher than .223 and I have .223 brass and a Dillon XL650 with dies and 5,000 rem 7 1/2 and cci 450s. When you buy 2,000 rounds little things like brass ad up.

The only thing I don't like about the practical is if I run out of ammo I can't go to town to buy more and I'm not taking my dillon press with me.. With .223 and maybe .204 ruger I could buy ammo in a pinch.

Also thinking how many guns do I need to bring? I figure three of us will go. And out of the three we have 2 .17 cal WSMS, 1 .204 pencil ruger and 1 .223 bolt gun. So like John Wicks says, "I need guns lots of guns"

 

[BobbyJ]

I shot my first prairie dog in 1983. Been out many times since, with a few different shooters.
I have never seen an AR make a marksmen out of anybody.......

Make it a bolt gun.

Thanks! I was thinking the same thing but had a buddy say you just need a good barrel on the AR. Well the upper is going to cost probably 700-800 or I could buy a CZ varmint bolt for around the same price. What gun is the best bang for the buck in bolt? And should I go with .204 with 223 chamber for the 20 practicle or just plain old .223? I was thinking of just keeping it simple and going .223 cause I already have 3 Colt ARs in 223 I don't have to worry about is this NATO or .223 when I use a bolt gun worrying about pressures being higher in my AR loads. It will be 2000 rounds of mixed brass maybe out of that 200 new starline so it wont be quite match ammo. Its around 1 MOA out of my stock ARs. Not as good as my .204 1/10 twist bolt but hopefully good enough for fun.

 

[BobbyJ]

Your best bet is your thoughts on buying a .223 bolt gun. Don't let the 1-9" twist you mentioned with the CZ bother you. I have a 1-8" 22" barrel that shoots 53-grain VMax bullets at 3,340 fps (true chrono) into little bitty holes. That twist eliminates the 50-grain SX bullets (though excellent bullets) since I have had them regularly blow up in barrels faster than 1-12". Both the 50-grain and 53-grain VMax bullets shoot just fine in the 1-8". A 24-26" barrel would safely get you very close or even exceed the 3,400 fps you seem to want.

I would want 5,000 fps for massive explosive effect if it did not melt my barrels. I look at it as a give and take. I know around 4000+ is when people start to ruin barrels if they are not careful. I have not shot my .204 much but when I did it got super hot fast. Talked to a bunch of venders that went to Dog town at a gun show around 6 years ago and they raved about the P Dog hunt. I told them what .204 I owned (Pencil barrel) and they all said you will melt that gun, get a BULL Barrel and bring two.

I probably wont go till next summer so I'm starting to research what is needed and even the best places to go. I know you can camp and do it on the cheap but the first time I think we are going to try one of the ranches that include food, cabin, tables etc. This is the first place I looked at.

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I know like 5 states have PDs so if someone has suggestion for a great place to hunt PD like that let me know. Would not like it if took at the time and money and go to a place and see like 1 dog over 2 days. Looking for some action.

I wonder if those videos of Dogs blowing up are all shot at like 80 yards and they are saying it was 300 yards.
That would make more sense.

 

[redrockranger]

Thanks! I was thinking the same thing but had a buddy say you just need a good barrel on the AR. Well the upper is going to cost probably 700-800 or I could buy a CZ varmint bolt for around the same price. What gun is the best bang for the buck in bolt? And should I go with .204 with 223 chamber for the 20 practicle or just plain old .223? I was thinking of just keeping it simple and going .223 cause I already have 3 Colt ARs in 223 I don't have to worry about is this NATO or .223 when I use a bolt gun worrying about pressures being higher in my AR loads. It will be 2000 rounds of mixed brass maybe out of that 200 new starline so it wont be quite match ammo. Its around 1 MOA out of my stock ARs. Not as good as my .204 1/10 twist bolt but hopefully good enough for fun.

I like single shot bolt rifles. They can be converted with a single shot adapter. I like the 40 X straight grain stock with the high comb. My 20 Practical is a converted 700 Remington in an old CMP takeoff stock, absolutely butt ugly and multiple dings ,scrapes and gouges. Scared to take it out of the stock. Sighted 1 1/2" @ 100yds and you can hold on meat @ 350 yds. Point and shoot.I think it will do anything a 204 will do with less powder. If you get into enough dogs a barrel will get hot.... Every one i seen behind a AR will quickly attempt to walk the bullets at the PD. You will go thru a lot of ammo quickly. You can ruin a barrel quickly. I know for a fact that Eastern Colorado has been devastated by the plague. How about Western Kansas ???Last place i shot had fair amount of shooting @ 300 to 500 yds and out. I have a preference for the Shilen # 7 barrel contour. 20 Practical is #8 contour Pac Nor. Every re barrel has been done with nt neck and zero freebore. Don't get your hope to high. Home page here @ top has articles about 20 Practical. I used the Fireball reamer spoken about. I also have moved to 22 BR Norma Lapua from a 40 X single shot 22-250 that went about 2600 rounds. Good luck. it ain't nothing that good checkbook won't cure.

 

[redrockranger]

I read the 53gr and 1/12 twist is borderline according to hornady. They said more velocity at 1/12 is better but don't recall at what velocity the 53gr is most stable with a 1/12 twist.
How fast can I push the 53gr in a 24" 1/12 twist? 3500 fps in .223?

I'm not 100 percent I'll get that 24" rock river upper I could also just buy a CZ .223 but I think they are 1/9 twist.

1-14 twist typically won't stabilize a 53 v Max. 1-12 tw no problem.

 

[redrockranger]

Your best bet is your thoughts on buying a .223 bolt gun. Don't let the 1-9" twist you mentioned with the CZ bother you. I have a 1-8" 22" barrel that shoots 53-grain VMax bullets at 3,340 fps (true chrono) into little bitty holes. That twist eliminates the 50-grain SX bullets (though excellent bullets) since I have had them regularly blow up in barrels faster than 1-12". Both the 50-grain and 53-grain VMax bullets shoot just fine in the 1-8". A 24-26" barrel would safely get you very close or even exceed the 3,400 fps you seem to want.

After market support is better with Remington and Savage.

 

[5spd]

I use 50g vmax, 50g nbt, 50g tnt, 50g Speer jsp, 55g vmax, 55g tnt, 55g nbt, 55g jsp
In the tens of thousands I've killed every bullet above has done the job very nicley.
All the above in my .223 rig.

 

[moondog]

I would want 5,000 fps for massive explosive effect if it did not melt my barrels. I look at it as a give and take. I know around 4000+ is when people start to ruin barrels if they are not careful. I have not shot my .204 much but when I did it got super hot fast. Talked to a bunch of venders that went to Dog town at a gun show around 6 years ago and they raved about the P Dog hunt. I told them what .204 I owned (Pencil barrel) and they all said you will melt that gun, get a BULL Barrel and bring two.

I probably wont go till next summer so I'm starting to research what is needed and even the best places to go. I know you can camp and do it on the cheap but the first time I think we are going to try one of the ranches that include food, cabin, tables etc. This is the first place I looked at.

Kansas Prairie Dog Hunts - Over 25 Prairie Dog Towns to Hunt

More prairie dogs, more prairie dog towns, more fun and excitement. Check out 10 Gauge Outfitters Kansas prairie dog hunts for all your shooting needs!

www.10gaugeoutfitters.com

I know like 5 states have PDs so if someone has suggestion for a great place to hunt PD like that let me know. Would not like it if took at the time and money and go to a place and see like 1 dog over 2 days. Looking for some action.

I wonder if those videos of Dogs blowing up are all shot at like 80 yards and they are saying it was 300 yards.
That would make more sense.

I had a 204 ruger that was awesome on dogs. It just got too hot to fast. I remarried to a 20 VarTarg. Now that gun was hard to get hot. 223 is bout perfect for a p-dog gun in my opinion.

 

[BobbyJ]

1-14 twist typically won't stabilize a 53 v Max. 1-12 tw no problem.

After looking at 223 bullets it seems the 53gr Vmax is the best bullet for PD.
- Explosive
- High BC 2.90 vs just 2.00 for the 40gr
- Wind drift and drop 16" or so at 400 yards

But I don't get why people are using 1/12 twists with them. I checked them out they have the length of a 60gr bullet longer than 55gr
53gr Vmax - .829"
55gr Vmax . .813"
55gr FMJ .735"

You can't go by weight alone its the shape and the 53s are longer. They look to be best stabilized in 1/9 to 1/10 twist.

Wonder how fast they can be pushed in a 24" barrel 223 bolt? 3600 fps?