Copper Removal Test: A Discovery 2

[Gargoyle]

I've tried to remove copper from barrels using the same product, but there comes a point the copper takes on a resistance to the copper solvent. Like, even overnight soaking and the copper remains. I had an idea to use a product and then follow it up with alcohol patches and then 10-15 passes with a bronze brush soaked in alcohol. I think this accomplishes removing the copper solvent and then etching the remaining copper, making it more porous to dissolve away.

I took two heavily coppered barrels, both 416R stainless, and tried a single product multiple times. It was when I rotated through the products listed in the picture that there was a significant amount of copper removed per cycle.

Wipeout 30 min sit- alcohol patch through and bonze brush scrub - Hoppes 30 minute sit - alcohol patch through and bronze brush scrub - Hoppes Black Copper 30 min sit - alcohol patch through & bronze brush scrub. All copper gone.

Each time I would see new blue on the patches where before using the same product it would not produce blue after alcohol treatments.

 

[mike06]

Have you ever tried Montana X ? If you do use it outside.

 

[Gargoyle]

Have you ever tried Montana X ? If you do use it outside.

No I have not. I do want to see how that and Boretech Eliminator compares though.

 

[K22]

Why the aggressive effort to remove the copper. Did the rifles shoot poorly?

 

[mike06]

No I have not. I do want to see how that and Boretech Eliminator compares though.

Save your money the Bore Tech stuff will work your butt off. I recently change to both Montana X powder and copper remover. It works better than anything I have used in the last 30 + years.

 

[Gargoyle]

Why the aggressive effort to remove the copper. Did the rifles shoot poorly?

No, shooting good.

 

[LHSmith]

Alcohol neutralizes the bore solvent. It is what I clean the bronze brushes with. A bore scope would tell if the copper is out.

 

[Gargoyle]

Alcohol neutralizes the bore solvent. It is what I clean the bronze brushes with. A bore scope would tell if the copper is out.

That's why I used the alcohol. To make a clean metal prep for the next solvent. I scoped after each iteration to gauge copper removal.

 

[FNSafari]

Are you using a ss or plastic patch jag?

 

[Gargoyle]

Are you using a ss or plastic patch jag?

Nickel plated brass jags.

 

[K22]

No, shooting good.

Puzzled why you would go to such an extensive effort if the rifle were shooting good.

 

[Gargoyle]

Puzzled why you would go to such an extensive effort if the rifle were shooting good.

Copper equilibrium testing. I don't like seeing piles of copper on top of the lands, and only in some areas of the bore.

 

[K22]

Copper equilibrium testing. I don't like seeing piles of copper on top of the lands, and only in some areas of the bore.

Piles of copper? But if it shoots good why worry about what it looks like?

I surely don't want to offend you or anyone else, but it sounds like this all about "how it looks" rather than an effort to address some performance problem with the rifle.

I've read where some assume that if there is some copper in the barrel the rifle will shoot poorly, and all kind of bad things are going to happen if the bore isn't stripped down to bare metal with aggressive chemical and methods.

This has not been my experience with a multitude of brands of rifles including some with aftermarket custom match barrels. If fact my experience has been the opposite in that such methods produced first shot flyers and required several rounds to re-establish consistent point of impact.

 

[Gargoyle]

Piles of copper? But if it shoots good why worry about what it looks like?

Maybe they will shoot even better! I'm going to find out. I am load developing for both barrels and shooting clean vs dirty.

I surely don't want to offend you or anyone else, but it sounds like this all about "how it looks" rather than an effort to address some performance problem with the rifle.

I didn't mean in an aesthetic sense

I've read where some assume that if there is some copper in the barrel the rifle will shoot poorly, and all kind of bad things are going to happen if the bore isn't stripped down to bare metal with aggressive chemical and methods.

I have some chrome moly barrels I've never cleaned and waiting to see the day they start going wonky.

This has not been my experience with a multitude of brands of rifles including some with aftermarket custom match barrels. If fact my experience has been the opposite in that such methods produced first shot flyers and required several rounds to re-establish consistent point of impact.

I shoot several rounds before I start measuring my groups in the 416R range guns. I am still documenting results of clean cold bore on my hunting rigs.

This post was to focus on copper removal if one was going for that. Highlight here is the alcohol use, etching of the copper deposits, and cycling of copper solvents when a single solvent ceases to solve.

 

[JMayo]

We all play with our toys the way we want to.
Play on !
I'm a jb & losso kinda guy.
I know where to maintain my rifles at in the clean stage during a match.
I like to start off clean before every match.

 

[Forum Boss]

"10-15 passes with a bronze brush soaked in alcohol. I think this accomplishes removing the copper solvent and then etching the remaining copper, making it more porous to dissolve away."

I won't comment on a poorly machined, non-lapped factory barrel. Maybe that's what you're working with...

But for a good custom, hand-lapped premium barrel, I think you can get away with way, way less brushing. Put some wet solvent patches through the bore when it's warm. Possibly brush 3-6 strokes if your barrel fouls badly. Then apply Wipe-Out, wait a minute (for bubbles to dissipate), then apply Wipe-Out a second time, then let it soak 3-4 hours.

I really don't want to say more because many people are convinced they need to do a lot of brushing. I had an AR factory barrel that did require that. But did my Krieger, Bartlein, and Brux barrels need lots of aggressive brushing? Heck no.

Yes I realize some famous guys have set world records brushing aggressively every 50 rounds. That CAN work. No question. But for a lot of good barrels, you may be able to get away with much less brushing. Way less. You may find: 1) You need fewer fouler shots; 2) You save a ton of time cleaning; 3) Your throat doesn't move as much; 4) Your crown stays perfect longer; 5) Your effective barrel life is extended.

I suggest starting conservatively and then see how it works.

 

[LHSmith]

I have a rather simple cleaning regimen that has worked well in my competition guns going on 20 + years. It involves Butches Bore Shine, quality rod and bore guide, quality bronze brushes, quality cotton patches, and Iosso and verifying the results with a borescope. I even carry that regimen into my hunting guns. I don't favor putting alcohol in the bore especially liberal amounts that can creep into the trigger, action, and bedding. Introducing a myraid of different chemicals into the bore would be a non-starter for me. I clean regularly so the barrels never get to the point of "coppering up", and always apply a light coating of MMO (Butches Gun Oil) during non -use. And my patches don't always come out pristine white despite what the borescope shows. Also I clean the comp guns while the barrel is still warm.- Carbon hardens the longer it stays in.

 

[Gargoyle]

"10-15 passes with a bronze brush soaked in alcohol. I think this accomplishes removing the copper solvent and then etching the remaining copper, making it more porous to dissolve away."

I won't comment on a poorly machined, non-lapped factory barrel. Maybe that's what you're working with...

Yes I am. Imagine gold lined looking lands in a barrel. 24k looking gold! Wilson Combat and Ballistic Advantage AR barrels to be precise.

But for a good custom, hand-lapped premium barrel, I think you can get away with way, way less brushing. Put some wet solvent patches through the bore when it's warm. Possibly brush 3-6 strokes if your barrel fouls badly. Then apply Wipe-Out, wait a minute (for bubbles to dissipate), then apply Wipe-Out a second time, then let it soak 3-4 hours.

I got one Kimber barrel that's an absolute beauty and closest to anything of premium quality I own. I have shot nothing but Hammer hunters out of it and I only recall ever seeing copper in a spot, 1/8" long, once.

I really don't want to say more because many people are convinced they need to do a lot of brushing. I had an AR factory barrel that did require that. But did my Krieger, Bartlein, and Brux barrels need lots of aggressive brushing? Heck no.

Now things are jiving a little more in regards to AR barrels

Yes I realize some famous guys have set world records brushing aggressively every 50 rounds. That CAN work. No question. But for a lot of good barrels, you may be able to get away with much less brushing. Way less. You may find: 1) You need fewer fouler shots; 2) You save a ton of time cleaning; 3) Your throat doesn't move as much; 4) Your crown stays perfect longer; 5) Your effective barrel life is extended.

I suggest starting conservatively and then see how it works.

That day of premium barrels will come to me, hopefully!

 

[JFrank]

I don’t own a bore scope to varify my cleanliness, I’m not sure I even want one . I have used an alcohol patch after scrubbing and had them come out clean and dry, I interpret that as clean.

 

[strut64]

It is possible that you are etching the copper out of your bronze brush. Use a copper cleaning removing solvent with a Nylon brush.