Barrel Cleaning: A Discovery

[Gargoyle]

Run some iosso in there on a good patch then start cleaning again. Id like to see what it looks like then

Roger that.

 

[Bottom Fodder]

With bore tech my patches come out blue/green ‍

 

[jelenko]

I would insert a LMAO smiley here but I don't see one

+1. Several times I've wanted to use a ROFL smiley.

 

[BoydAllen]

By observing the bore with a bore scope I have seen that bronze brushes do in fact leave very fine scratches in the bore. They run parallel with the rifling and follow the twist of the rifling. There is obviously a small amount of material removed otherwise there would be no scratches. I do not believe this harms the bore in any way that effects the accuracy I am able to achieve. This light scratching that is observable only by the magnification produced by the bore scope creates a very small amount of material which is what I see when I run a clean patch through the bore after using a bronze brush.
If some of you see absolutely no color on a patch at all I wish I could be there to see it because something that you do is different from what I do. What that is I can only guess.

On bronze brushes removing material: When a farmer discs a field he has "scratched" it, but has he removed material?

The major flaws that I commonly see in people's rifle barrel cleaning practices are insufficient brushing with a bronze brush, and the use of worn out bronze brushes.

Anyone who posts about barrel cleaning who is not serious enough to have invested a paltry $60 dollars to buy a perfectly serviceable bore scope is IMO unlikely to have discovered the secrets of the universe.

 

[Chiquita]

Have you tried a different brush manufacturer?

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Second that^^^^ make sure youre using brass core brushes from a name brand and not outers or hoppes. You want bore tech, proshot, sinclair, etc. They need the loop ends and need to be so tight theyre hard to push. Soak them with solvent like butchs, brush 15-20 strokes, then dunk in a bottle of water or spray off with carb cleaner

 

[Gargoyle]

Second that^^^^ make sure youre using brass core brushes from a name brand and not outers or hoppes. You want bore tech, proshot, sinclair, etc. They need the loop ends and need to be so tight theyre hard to push. Soak them with solvent like butchs, brush 15-20 strokes, then dunk in a bottle of water or spray off with carb cleaner

Brushes: Dewey no harm, Tipton, Brownells bulk. (Cleaned with alcohol between 50 passes)
Solvents: Breakfree CLP, Hoppes #9 foam, Wipe-Out foam/accelerator combo, Free All, Bore Scrubber.
Flitz is metal polish version. Still looking for grit comparison to IOSSO.
Switching to the non nitrided, Wilson Combat 416R stainless. There will be no nitride vs carbon debate in that one.

 

[DShortt]

On bronze brushes removing material: When a farmer discs a field he has "scratched" it, but has he removed material?

The major flaws that I commonly see in people's rifle barrel cleaning practices are insufficient brushing with a bronze brush, and the use of worn out bronze brushes.

Anyone who posts about barrel cleaning who is not serious enough to have invested a paltry $60 dollars to buy a perfectly serviceable bore scope is IMO unlikely to have discovered the secrets of the universe.

Perhaps 'removed' is a bit too strong of a word, I'll agree with that. My point was there is an observable difference in the surface finish of the barrel and I concluded that the discoloration seen on the first patch following the use of a bronze brush is the result of this change in surface finish.
I never stated nor implied that there is any kind of measurable change in the bore diameter. The OP stated that he was seeing discoloration on his first patch following the use of a bronze brush. I have noticed that as well but I never stated that the patch was brown or black, only discolored. In my mind there is a distinct difference between those conditions. Apparently I should have explained myself better.

 

[jelenko]

Hmmm. I've got a couple of new, never fired stainless barrels. I'm going to try brushing the bores.

 

[JFrank]

My only bore scope is this one. And after a good scrubbing

 

[Chiquita]

Hmmm. I've got a couple of new, never fired stainless barrels. I'm going to try brushing the bores.

Will be interesting to see the results. Although, will you get different results if you merely have a different barrel manufacturer? Or manufacturer doesn't matter, stainless barrel is stainless barrel

 

[Kracken McGraw]

In Bart’s interview with Erick, IIRC he said the blue nylon brushes were used only because they didn’t wear out fast like the bronze ones do.

 

[JMayo]

I quit trying to get a used barrel to new and shiny ...
Such a waste of time, cleaner & brushes.
I shoot enough to know where i need it to be.

 

[Liven The Dream]

I read this post to death.
I took a .284 SS Barrel with 900 + Rounds Fired. I have been using Montana Bore and Copper Killer every Cleaning.
Then after 200-300 Round The Montana treatment and Sea Foam and Kroil treatment finish with Mop of CLP dry patch.
I took that Rifle ( after reading this post) got a Blue Nylon Brush and Iosso .
One Wet Patch then Blue Brush with a little Iosso as instructions 8-10 strokes . Then a Dry Patch, Black as INK.
Took 5 dry patches then 2 wet ones looks clean ?
I will run this on another rifle, Not Sure what came out of that Barrel in Test #1, Hope it was Carbon ?

Great Post
By the Good Guys

 

[mikecr]

Wonder if it's the IOSSO itself turning black, and taking a bit to remove.

 

[jelenko]

Wonder if it's the IOSSO itself turning black, and taking a bit to remove.

Right. Hard to tell what the black is. If Iosso is rubbed on a clean piece of stainless steel, it will turn black [same as Flitz, JB, etc]

As others have mentioned, the only way to tell what is happening in the bore is with a borescope.

 

[Gargoyle]

One Wet Patch then Blue Brush with a little Iosso as instructions 8-10 strokes . Then a Dry Patch, Black as INK.
Took 5 dry patches then 2 wet ones looks clean ?
I will run this on another rifle, Not Sure what came out of that Barrel in Test #1, Hope it was Carbon ?

Great Post
By the Good Guys

If IOSSO is anything like Flitz it will forever black a patch. I am trying to pinpoint now whether a bronze brush will do the same.

I'm at the point where I'm trying to determine:

1. Am I removing nitride coating or hard carbon?
2. Do bronze brushes produce "forever blacks" in a clean bore?

After coffee I will start on my 416R "hand lapped" barrel. No nitride to muddy the waters

 

[Gargoyle]

Right. Hard to tell what the black is. If Iosso is rubbed on a clean piece of stainless steel, it will turn black [same as Flitz, JB, etc]

As others have mentioned, the only way to tell what is happening in the bore is with a borescope.

Flitz will forever blacken.

 

[K22]

You scared those chucks to death!

You're probably right, they saw my homemade shooting cross sticks that have a pointed ends and probably thought they were spears.

 

[Dave M.]

In Bart’s interview with Erick, IIRC he said the blue nylon brushes were used only because they didn’t wear out fast like the bronze ones do.

That is exactly what he said. The Blue Iosso brushes are extremely stiff. I like them a lot.
Dave