Looking for a gun to shoot ground hogs or as some of you call them wood chucks. I've been leaning towards a 6 creedmoor but there aren't too many of them out there for sale and it got me thinking if I would be better off with a 243. Do have some places where a 600 yard shot is feasible, and I want a gun that is capable and repeatable. Obviously bullet selection for 6 creedmoor really.can reach out there, and most 243 1:10 twist won't stabilize heavier bullets. What are your thoughts?
6 creedmoor or 243
- Thread starter Cowmooch
- Start date
IF you Reload,.. NEITHER !
Buy a 6 XC as, the Barrel's WILL last about, 500-800 rounds LONGER than, both Cart's that, you mentioned !
Buy a 1-71/2 or, 1-8 Twist, in case, you want to shoot,.. LONG !
Try some,.. N-160 with, the 95 or 105 VLD Berger Hunting bullets !
I have a Tikka in .243 Win with, 87 HVLD's and N-160, that would "Smoke' a Wood Chuck at 600,.. IF the Wind wasn't "Howling" too bad ! But, I won't "waste", the Barrel "Life" of THIS Rifle, on small Varmints, just Coyotes, Wolves and Deer.
Buy a 6 XC as, the Barrel's WILL last about, 500-800 rounds LONGER than, both Cart's that, you mentioned !
Buy a 1-71/2 or, 1-8 Twist, in case, you want to shoot,.. LONG !
Try some,.. N-160 with, the 95 or 105 VLD Berger Hunting bullets !
I have a Tikka in .243 Win with, 87 HVLD's and N-160, that would "Smoke' a Wood Chuck at 600,.. IF the Wind wasn't "Howling" too bad ! But, I won't "waste", the Barrel "Life" of THIS Rifle, on small Varmints, just Coyotes, Wolves and Deer.
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Been shooting and hunting ground hogs / predators / and deer with the 243 Win since the late 60's. But these days I use mostly 223 Rem's since the distances I hunt are modest by todays standards.
Perhaps my experience won't be of much value to you since I never have and never will shoot at an animal at the distance you mentioned in your post. But I'll offer some of my extensive experience with the 243 Win. and hunting ground hogs.
The Sierra 85 BTHP would be my first choice for a "long range" varmint bullet in the 243 with a 10" twist. I've shot this bullet extensively in the 243 Win with outstanding results. This bullet shoots like a match bullet and has excellent terminal performance.
The powders that have worked best for me with this bullet are IMR 4350 and IMR 4064. For long range varmint hunting, I'd opt for a heavy barrel rifle with a minimum length of 24", 26" would be better w/ IMR 4350. I prefer Federal 210 primers.
Perhaps my experience won't be of much value to you since I never have and never will shoot at an animal at the distance you mentioned in your post. But I'll offer some of my extensive experience with the 243 Win. and hunting ground hogs.
The Sierra 85 BTHP would be my first choice for a "long range" varmint bullet in the 243 with a 10" twist. I've shot this bullet extensively in the 243 Win with outstanding results. This bullet shoots like a match bullet and has excellent terminal performance.
The powders that have worked best for me with this bullet are IMR 4350 and IMR 4064. For long range varmint hunting, I'd opt for a heavy barrel rifle with a minimum length of 24", 26" would be better w/ IMR 4350. I prefer Federal 210 primers.
I don't currently reload, although I was gifted a press and other such tools.to.get started, so I definately will be reloading in near future. I'llhave to do some research on the 6xc, thanks
It's Basically, a 6 Creed with, a longer Neck and a Tiny bit, less Powder !
Look for some Forster Dies that have, very LOW TIR,. "runout" of the Neck / Bullet !
If you don't shoot a lot, the other 2 rounds are OK !
Look for some Forster Dies that have, very LOW TIR,. "runout" of the Neck / Bullet !
If you don't shoot a lot, the other 2 rounds are OK !
My favorite 250-450 yard whistle pig gun is a 1-14 twist 6BR topped with an 8-32 NF and I’m currently building a 1-8 twist 6BRA to augment that setup. I don’t think you can go wrong with any of the medium capacity 6 mm cartridges, although I would choose something with a 30 degree shoulder. The next step up would be the 6mm ackley IMHO. Keep in mind 50-60 good cases will last you a long time when groundhog hunting.
Any advantage xc vs br?
I don’t really think it would cost anymore than the others.
The 6 BR is slightly more accurate ( an efficient cart ) at, 200-500 Yards or so.
600 Yards and beyond, the extra 100- 150 FPS of the XC ,.."helps" & Many 1,000 yard Matches, Won with it.
The 6 XC feeds PERFECTLY in a Rem short action, without,.. "Modification".
Everyone, is a bit "biased" about, their favorite Cartridge and Opinions are like, asszHoles, everyone, HAS one !
But, every Barrel / Rifle and Load,.. is different and one "may" out shoot the other,.. sometimes !
As far as "accuracy" goes, Barrel choice, Bullet chosen / Load work up, Gun Smith used and a few other Factors, come into "play",.. It's, a "crapshoot" !
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How will a case with just about 1gr (the Creedmoor) more case capacity and just about the same neck length and same shoulder angle as the XC have 800 rounds shorter barrel life? For all purposes its just about the same case
Just going on brass availability I would choose the Creedmoor
I have to ask.....seriously, all B.S. aside, just how often do you shoot at GH's at 600 yards???? Don't get me wrong, not trying to judge, if you do you do and that is fine. I have shot at them at 1000...but cartridges aside, I would not base a rifle build on the shots I take once a year or even once a month. I guess if you have a spot where you hunt and it's that far away then yeah.
If you hunt GH's like everyone else I would suggest you build it for the average shot. While it is fun to reach way out there you have a whole other set of issues or concerns to deal with when you take "average" shots with a rifle made to shoot way out there.....and if they are average they will be the ones you do more often.
I would suggest a 223 until you get up and reloading and can work up loads in a reasonable amount of time. You can really cook the throat in some of these heavy hitter cartridges while trying to find the right load combo if you are not careful.
If you hunt GH's like everyone else I would suggest you build it for the average shot. While it is fun to reach way out there you have a whole other set of issues or concerns to deal with when you take "average" shots with a rifle made to shoot way out there.....and if they are average they will be the ones you do more often.
I would suggest a 223 until you get up and reloading and can work up loads in a reasonable amount of time. You can really cook the throat in some of these heavy hitter cartridges while trying to find the right load combo if you are not careful.
WyleWD
Silver $$ Contributor
So far in this thread the 6 creedmoor, 243, 6br, and 6xc has been brought up. I've done quite a lot of chuck hunting and have been lucky enough to have experience with all 4 of those.
The 6br is capable of remarkable accuracy, but making a repeater out of it has proved to be a challenge. It can be done but will run up the cost of your project in my experience.
I shot chucks with the 243 for decades and if you're really concerned with barrel life and you shoot over 500 or more rounds per year then that is a concern as about 2-3 years is about all I'd expect to get. They are very easy to load for and provide good accuracy. Great deer rifle too!
About 15 years ago a gunsmith made a 6xc on a Rem. 700 action with a 26" 1-10tw Lilja sporter weight barrel (contour 3 or 4?) on it for me. That is now my favorite rifle to take along especially if a bit of hiking might be involved or if wind is a consideration. It will flat out shoot well with 70gr NBT, 75gr Vmax, 80gr Sierra Blitz, and 85gr Sierra HPBT. It cycles flawlessly, very easy to load for, recoil is manageable and whether it's chucks or coyotes it will anchor them right there and sometimes in remarkable fashion. The 6xc is also a great deer rifle too. And to your question on the 6xc vs the 6br, each to their own but I'll take the XC every time for chuck and coyote hunting based on my experience with them.
I shot a 6 Creedmoor for a couple years and for some reason I just never got the consistent accuracy out of it that I thought I should. So it went down the river (So to speak). It is probably a good choice, but I've been so pleased with the XC that the CM just didn't trip my trigger. JME for what it's worth. WD
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I started out shooting groundhogs with a 22-250 and most of the ranges were an honest 150-300 yards max. While it was a great flat shooting cartridge with 40 grain bullets leaving at over 4100 fps, the loud bark and the torque was bothersome. One property that I used to hunt was a hog farm and I remember the farmer one day mentioning while he appreciated me removing the groundhogs, he asked if I had anything that made less noise because I was spooking his pigs.
That got me interested in the sub calibers and after some research I had a 17Mach4 built on Sako action with a 24” light varmint profile barrel. This turned out to be ideal for that sub 300 yard shorter range. I’m now literally burning half as much powder, using bullets half the weight of the 22-250 and I can watch a groundhog tip over dead in the scope recticle. Also, I picked up a 222 Remington shortly after for these shorter ranges as well.
I say all this to say, don’t dismiss some of the legacy varmint cartridges that have been around forever; 22-250, 222, 223 if your ranges are honestly on average shorter. Like someone mentioned in another post, there’s much merit to building a gun for your average range. That‘s why I favor the the 6BR case; only 30-32 grains of powder, under true varmint bullets from 58-75 grains.
For folks that are setup and have jumped on the AICS magazine bandwagon, which has apparently made the BDL uncool now. The 6BR can easily be setup as a 12 shot repeater with just the applicable MDT magazine. Here’s the 6BR-68 and 6BRA-80 loaded in the MDT BR magzine.
Attachments
I have a 204 for my short to 3-400 yard range, but you know how it goes. The day I'm sitting there and one pokes out at 5-600 yards I want to reach it comfortable. There is also the added benefit that I don't own a 6mm cart and I would like one something fierce. I don't mind a heavy gun at all, my 204 is wearing a 24" criterion heavy varmint barrel. Why.. just because I could, and I hate the super light pencil contour barrels, just my preference.
So I'll be rebarreling a savage model 10 predator, id have to switch over my magazine to something that accepts aics mags to get decent follow up shots?
STOMP442
Gold $$ Contributor
My vote goes to the 6XC. Absolutely love this cartridge. Small, efficient and mild recoil with all the performance one could ask for. Build it with an 8 twist load it with the 105gr Berger VLD and hunt anything you want as far as you want. It works equally as well on varmints to Mule Deer.
Yep I get it, I also have 20 Practical 24” AR that works great for quick second shots along ditch lines.
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