Here’s how the Red Flag scenario will happen.

[rr2030]

Lets say a person does make threats to people, and is known to be erratic, and probably mentally ill. Who wants to be the one in uniform to go to his front door?

Cant speak for ND but out here they will show up with overwhelming force. All that donated surplus military equipment that has turned our police into tactical commando's will be on display. Helicopters over head, a command post set up, SWAT team working in conjunction with ATF, ICE, FBI and the other alphabets. Television crews rolling and praying for the carnage. Pre arranged statements by LEO's, politicians standing by to make their case against guns, especially black guns. Interviews with the neighbors and co-workers. It will be the greatest show on earth, again.

 

[Hondo64d]

I believe I have come to a new conclusion pertaining to our second amendment rights. With sublime certainty we are going to loose them all together or have them so restricted it won't be worth the bother to have anything to do with firearms. When ? sooner or later but it's going to happen. You may ask: why the change of heart rr2030? Well this is why:

Back on page two of this thread post #38, I asked everyone here to, in their opinion identify the root causes of these shootings and opinions on what could possibly be done, short and long term to fix the issue. Now I know it's only opinions and hopefully reasonable discussion on the subject. Instead, for the most part few gave opinions, instead many pointed out why we wont loose our rights. This turned into arguments that did not address the issues. Now it has turned into guys attacking each other, attacking Trump, guys are blocking each other. We have danced around pontificating the issue so important to us and turned the discussion into a mess.

I had a reasonably high expectation from anyone that participated in this thread, However, if we fellow forum members, firearm owners all, a bunch of smart guys that jump to help each other with problems, fellow competitive shooters, hunters, and people that share the frustration of the gun laws, cant speak reasonably about this important subject, Then how the hell do you expect a bunch of career politicians that cant get along on a good day, produce a single piece of legislation that will address in law, what we cant even discuss here, as friends?

And now even politicians that are 2A friendly are having second thoughts. Guess they are like anyone else, just want a steady paycheck.

My personal opinion is that the more this country turns its back on God Almighty, the more of these shootings, and worse, we are going to see.

John

 

[J F Johannes]

This isn't gonna sound good to a lot of folks.

These mass murders, (let's say 300 a year) are tragic and ugly, but no more so than any other 300 deaths that occur in our imperfect world every year. Heck, I'm pretty sure that more children than that are killed by their own parents every year.

The folks who cry the loudest about these deaths don't hate them, they cherish them. These deaths are the biggest tool in their arsenal for accomplishing their goal of relieving our population of our firearms; literally our means of defending our society and way of life.

If the cause of tragic death was their main concern, there are a dozen others which cause as much or more suffering, loss, and body count. Those don't interest them, because this isn't about death, it's about guns.

If we give up our gun rights, these deaths may decrease or increase.
If we preserve our gun rights, these deaths may decrease or increase.

The folks who think there is an easy solution, or any solution to this particular type of death are deluded, dishonest, and misinformed. Many are useful idiots who have been ramped up by the powers who want to take our guns.

Human life is incredibly special, and incredibly cheap. The stupidest phrase used for any life saving cause is "If it saves just one life...."

Many thousands, or millions of lives have been given to obtain and preserve the rights and privileges that we now enjoy. I'll bet that the givers of those lives would be disgusted to see those rights and privileges given away.

I'm getting long here, and I hate long posts. jd

I will make this short then. They are not coming for your guns, they are coming for you. Your guns stand in the way.
Jim

 

[JLT]

I will make this short then. They are not coming for your guns, they are coming for you. Your guns stand in the way.
Jim

I believe Jim is correct.

 

[jds holler]

And remember that while most of us honor and cherish the US Constitution, these people have no such feelings about it. To them it is an inconvenient and antiquated relic that should be thrown out, or rewritten to include their agenda.

They feel pretty much the same about the Holy Bible. jd

 

[bsekf]

Good editorial in our local paper by an Israeli about how he could take a AR apart when he was 9 and how everybody in Israel has to serve. Eighteen years olds carrying locked and loaded full autos on every street corner and in every airport. BUT no stupid shootings. Those boys and girls with the weapons are trained soldiers and, just like our military, they are taught just how precious life is. Maybe we did our youth a huge disservice when we cut out the draft?

Bill

 

[rr2030]

Good editorial in our local paper by an Israeli about how he could take a AR apart when he was 9 and how everybody in Israel has to serve. Eighteen years olds carrying locked and loaded full autos on every street corner and in every airport. BUT no stupid shootings. Those boys and girls with the weapons are trained soldiers and, just like our military, they are taught just how precious life is. Maybe we did our youth a huge disservice when we cut out the draft?
Bill

IDK :
A US Marine Corps veteran with suspected mental health issues killed 12 people in a busy bar in California, including a policeman, officials say.

3 miles from my house. I think it's more the screwed up society we have evolved into. To me the problems started in the 60's, I'm not saying they were all bad, just some things that put us on the trajectory we are paying for now.

LBJ for instance

 

[J F Johannes]

 

[Willie]

Thanks for posting that video RatRifle.
That says it all, in a nutshell.

 

[bsekf]

Thank you RatRifle!! That is what we all are trying to say. Now, how do we get SCOTUS to review these laws before any of the travesties he suggests come true?

Bill

 

[338 dude]

Red Flag scenario -

Red Flag Laws. Here’s what will happen...

It’s a Sunday night and your family has all gone to bed. You let the dogs back in and lock the deadbolt like you do every night. All the lights are off now except a couple of night lights scattered throughout the house leaving that dim glow throughout your home. It’s bedtime and work and school are going to come early in the morning. You crawl in bed, kiss your wife and drift off to sleep being thankful for the air conditioning that allows you to pull that heavy quilt up over your shoulder despite the fact it’s still 85 degrees outside. A few hours pass...

0200 Monday morning and your wife taps your leg and says, “baby I heard something outside”. As you sit up in bed you hear the dog growling in the living room and you know something isn’t right. You grab that trusty ole 870 and head into the living room. Your wife grabs her 9mm and heads down the hall to the kids rooms just like you have rehearsed. “Good boy” you say as you enter the living room, trying to calm both the dog and your wife just as splinters fly across the room and the front door flys open. “Oh shit!” As you shoulder your weapon and send a load of 00 Buck across your living room and see the perpetrator fall in a heap. Before the “thank God” can even run across your brain, you see a second man coming in the door and you fire again. This time you hear the pop of your wife’s 9mm as she has joined in the fight. It has to be those damn meth heads from down in town! Just then you are consumed by a wall of bullets as you see multiple muzzle flashes from just outside the door and you realize something isn’t right. You turn to yell at your wife to “get down” just in time to see her take a load of buckshot to the face and her brain matter splatter the wall behind her. You feel the burning as 5.56 bullets Riddle your body. One clips your spine as you’re scrambling away and paralyzes your lower body. The last thing you see before you bleed out is a SWAT guy from your local PD holding your teenage daughter on the floor with a knee in her back as she screams and cry’s because she just watched her parents being murdered.

Why did this happen? You’re no criminal. You’re a Conservative and an honest family man. Your wife is a school teacher and your daughters are on honor roll. Why did this happen?

Well two days ago, you and your wife went down to welcome the new neighbors to the community. Your wife made them some of her “world famous” cookies and you invited them to church on Sunday. Later that afternoon, you got a friend request on Facebook from your new neighbor, which you gladly accepted. They seemed a little odd, but in the few minutes you talked they were pleasant enough. The next day while you and your family sat in church, your new neighbor scrolled through your Facebook profile. He saw that “Trump 2020” post and got infuriated. See, he’s a staunch liberal and he hates your kind. The next thing he sees are the hunting pictures you took last fall when your daughter bagged her first buck. Now he’s seething with fury because he is wholeheartedly against the “slaughter of innocent animals”. Next he sees your post from the last range day with your buddy and sees those scary black assault weapons on the table and that does it! He has to do something about the racist domestic terrorist living next door. He picks up the phone, calls the local Sheriffs Office and reports you as a threat under the new Red Flag law. The SO follows their SOP’s and conducts a no knock warrant because you have now been denied due process and you are considered guilty until proven innocent.

Now you, your lovely wife and two deputies have been killed for nothing. Your daughter will have absolute hell for the rest of her life. She will never be that successful person you dreamed for her to be because of the mental tragedy caused from seeing her parents murdered. The local news paper will report that you were killed after firing on and killing two deputies and that “over a thousand rounds of ammo and 22 guns were confiscated from your residence”.

Oh, those two deputies were just following orders. They left behind families as well and had served their community for over a decade. They didn’t know you were a stand-up guy with a great family. They weren’t allowed time to investigate things under due process. They were told you had threatened your neighbor and were out in the street waving an AR15 around.

This is the reality of Red Flag gun laws. Innocent people will lose their lives. Red Flag laws will be used for petty and vengeful reasons without merit.
-Chris Anders

What is really scary for me is you are exactly right and describe that scenario to a T

 

[Raythemanroe]

My personal opinion is that the more this country turns its back on God Almighty, the more of these shootings, and worse, we are going to see.

John

Bingo

Ray

 

[dryhumor]

It occurred to me when I woke up this morning, that these laws if enacted need to have repercussions for false reporting.

5 years in prison as a minimum would be a good start. While it may not deter every false or vindictive attempt, it would only take a couple of examples of a vigorous prosecution to (possibly) deter the majority of them. Particularly if you hammered them for manslaughter or negligent homicide in the event of death.

In the OP’s chilling example, the survivor should have the means to pursue civil compensation. Based on outcome, there could then be the pursuit of criminal charges. If law enforcement had not previously pursued them. There should already be a paper trail in place, that paper trail absolutely should not be sealed or unavailable.

My 2c

 

[dunraven]

This is liberal 'incrementalism', the goal being to erase the 2nd amendment altogether. Please do not agree to this in any form.

 

[D-4297]

A starting point should be for each and everyone of us on this site ; active , or in-active member to place a call to our Senator urging them to ignore the House Bill passed by the over-whelmingly anti-gun Lib-tards . You all need to remember that the objective of the leftist ; be they Communist , or Socialist in view-point , is to dis-arm this nation , so they can create their over-bearing police state . Thus insuring that "THEIR" political class remains in control of Our lives . After all ; "They know what's best for Us". Just ask any one of them , and they will classify us as Obama & Clinton did .

New laws are never an answer to any issue facing the country . I heard on a news broadcast that we currently have over 1,400 Federal laws regarding guns . So how will one or two more be of any real value . The drug-dealing thug in Philly is a Show-case to the eventually of what can and will happen if the left gets their way on this issue . Career criminal with multiple gun violations , multiple felonies for Drugs , Guns and violence , yet he still managed to have what the police said was a arsenal in his "crib" . And a flavor-of-the-month , AR-15 . Which of course was described by the media as another , "Fully automatic ASSUALT RIFLE" . The leftist media is just as much at fault for these shootings , as the nut-jobs committing them . They promote the event , and nearly "glorify" the shooters , while never blaming anything except that ugly black fully automatic Assualt Rifle .

Everything in the District of Corruption is done by "polling data" , so the only way to let those Representatives and Senators know where we stand is to call their local office , call their Washington office and leave a message , if you can't get through to a human being . Call ! And call again , till you do get through . Or do nothing , and watch your Constitutional rights be stripped away , one at a time . Then you'll know how the peoples of Germany , Poland , France , Italy , The Balkan States , China , Cambodia , Laos , and millions more felt , when their governments and military stripped them of their guns , and their rights to self defense . Like Australia , New Zealand , Great Britain and Canada . In the name of making us all "SAFER" !

They can have mine when it goes "Click" ! Cause I'm out of ammo , with no way to get anymore . Molon Labe'!

 

[rr2030]

This is liberal 'incrementalism', the goal being to erase the 2nd amendment altogether. Please do not agree to this in any form.

The masses need to realize that this is the beginning of the end for the 5th and 14th amendment more so than the 2nd. Someone in the not too distant future will find a reason to red flag something you possess they don't like.

I don't think they will put punitive damages on the person that falsely turns someone in for a RF simply because, the people that are for it, don't want to discourage the person doing the ratting. Just let the innocent guy jump through hoops and spend his cash to get his property back. Would be nice if some conservatives in DC would add to the legislation that when a RF'd person is found innocent the government makes them whole. But the conservatives in DC, for the most part, have lacked the scrotum size to do anything meaningful when it comes to these "common sense" laws.

 

[GotRDid]

Good editorial in our local paper by an Israeli about how he could take a AR apart when he was 9 and how everybody in Israel has to serve. Eighteen years olds carrying locked and loaded full autos on every street corner and in every airport. BUT no stupid shootings. Those boys and girls with the weapons are trained soldiers and, just like our military, they are taught just how precious life is. Maybe we did our youth a huge disservice when we cut out the draft?

Bill

GotRDid.

 

[GSS]

Many good points in the video but I would have preferred he didn't cite all the bad examples of Police Officers doing unsafe acts with firearms. I am not LEO and I don't have any family or friends that are LEO but I think it was in poor taste to cite those examples.

Anyone in their right mind would agree that this legislation is very bad in numerous ways.

George

 

[joshb]

History repeats.

 

[Milo 2.0]

View attachment 1121737
GotRDid.

That is no way live. Israel's situation is in a league of it's own. I'd just as soon have my mcpiggy burger w/o an AR 15 slinged up.