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Here’s how the Red Flag scenario will happen.

I believe I have come to a new conclusion pertaining to our second amendment rights. With sublime certainty we are going to loose them all together or have them so restricted it won't be worth the bother to have anything to do with firearms. When ? sooner or later but it's going to happen. You may ask: why the change of heart rr2030? Well this is why:

Back on page two of this thread post #38, I asked everyone here to, in their opinion identify the root causes of these shootings and opinions on what could possibly be done, short and long term to fix the issue. Now I know it's only opinions and hopefully reasonable discussion on the subject. Instead, for the most part few gave opinions, instead many pointed out why we wont loose our rights. This turned into arguments that did not address the issues. Now it has turned into guys attacking each other, attacking Trump, guys are blocking each other. We have danced around pontificating the issue so important to us and turned the discussion into a mess.

I had a reasonably high expectation from anyone that participated in this thread, However, if we fellow forum members, firearm owners all, a bunch of smart guys that jump to help each other with problems, fellow competitive shooters, hunters, and people that share the frustration of the gun laws, cant speak reasonably about this important subject, Then how the hell do you expect a bunch of career politicians that cant get along on a good day, produce a single piece of legislation that will address in law, what we cant even discuss here, as friends?

And now even politicians that are 2A friendly are having second thoughts. Guess they are like anyone else, just want a steady paycheck.
 
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Part of the problem rr2030 is "a" notion that mass communication,meaning online..... is somehow the end all be all. Not pointing fingers at folks who belong to online communities for the right reasons within the scope their individual interests.

Politics,religion,and a host of topics just don't do well if they aren't face to face. But we've been led to believe technology cures all,therefore web based discussion must be appropriate. So society has stratified and gone off in their respective directions hiding,if you will,from interactions with others.

So we're losing the ability to "play nice".... yet,the ones preaching kumbaya the loudest fall into this same trap. Just observation...
 
The long and short of any criminal act is enforcement. If we don't enforce laws, it leads to more laws. That is the game being played by democrats, the end game is abolishing the constitution, has been for decades. Enforcement of laws includes punishment, punishment must fit the crime. The liberal,regressive(not a spell check error) political wind is prison reform, voting rights for felons(and illegal immigrants). Why is it that after every criminal act it is not the individuals fault, but an inanimate object. The latest-Philadelphia, a life long criminal living free, illegally possessing firearms, but we need more gun control laws. Talk about a definition of insanity.
 
rr2030 said:
I believe I have come to a new conclusion pertaining to our second amendment rights. With sublime certainty we are going to loose them all together or have them so restricted it won't be worth the bother to have anything to do with firearms. When ? sooner or later but it's going to happen. You may ask: why the change of heart rr2030? Well this is why:

Back on page two of this thread post #38, I asked everyone here to, in their opinion identify the root causes of these shootings and opinions on what could possibly be done, short and long term to fix the issue. Now I know it's only opinions and hopefully reasonable discussion on the subject. Instead, for the most part few gave opinions, instead many pointed out why we wont loose our rights. This turned into arguments that did not address the issues. Now it has turned into guys attacking each other, attacking Trump, guys are blocking each other. We have danced around pontificating the issue so important to us and turned the discussion into a mess.

I had a reasonably high expectation from anyone that participated in this thread, However, if we fellow forum members, firearm owners all, a bunch of smart guys that jump to help each other with problems, fellow competitive shooters, hunters, and people that share the frustration of the gun laws, cant speak reasonably about this important subject, Then how the hell do you expect a bunch of career politicians that cant get along on a good day, produce a single piece of legislation that will address in law, what we cant even discuss here, as friends?

And now even politicians that are 2A friendly are having second thoughts. Guess they are like anyone else, just want a steady paycheck.
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Shootings happen every day, this is not new. Police have standoffs with criminals all the time, nothing new. I think people are stuck in this perfect world eutopia ideology that everyone can do whatever they want with zero consequence. We want what we want and nobody should be allowed to criticize my opinion. Since the beginning of time we have had brothers killing brothers. Everyone wants the magic pill, sorry folks you don't fix the hearts and minds of people with legislation.. Both political parties are selling us down the river on this subject because they are spinless and don't want to be on the wrong side of the political tides with this..The more you give in to this kind of gun control tactics the more they will come back to the well..I think they found a winner that pulls at the Ol' heart strings. Australia went this route using shootings to drive everyone's feelings..

Ray
 
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rr2030 said:
Back on page two of this thread post #38, I asked everyone here to, in their opinion identify the root causes of these shootings and opinions on what could possibly be done, short and long term to fix the issue. Now I know it's only opinions and hopefully reasonable discussion on the subject. Instead, for the most part few gave opinions, instead many pointed out why we wont loose our rights. This turned into arguments that did not address the issues. Now it has turned into guys attacking each other, attacking Trump, guys are blocking each other. We have danced around pontificating the issue so important to us and turned the discussion into a mess.

I had a reasonably high expectation from anyone that participated in this thread.
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I am curious as to how you came to the conclusion that gun forum members could solve this, especially reasonably.
I'd bet the most brilliant of psychiatrists would love to crawl inside the heads of most of these lunatics carrying out a mass shooting, but they'd still come up empty. It takes one deranged individual to want to kill a number of people unknown to that person.
From a feel good standpoint, and emotional at that, even if red flag laws are 1% successful, it is a win in a lot of peoples minds. For if a few shootings have been adverted, of coarse at the cost of liberties of the wrongly accused, but an irrelevant fact to gun control activists, still a win-win to them.
When the house judiciary committee purposely omits a notification clause from the new background check BS that they want that was intended to notify the right org when an illegal immigrant, or a felon tries to buy a firearm, it is no longer about anyone's safety.
The left wants a homemade from scratch chocolate cake with triple layers of frosting, and a good portion of those want it for free.
 
Milo 2.0 said:
I am curious as to how you came to the conclusion that gun forum members could solve this, especially reasonably.
I'd bet the most brilliant of psychiatrists would love to crawl inside the heads of most of these lunatics carrying out a mass shooting, but they'd still come up empty. It takes one deranged individual to want to kill a number of people unknown to that person.
From a feel good standpoint, and emotional at that, even if red flag laws are 1% successful, it is a win in a lot of peoples minds. For if a few shootings have been adverted, of coarse at the cost of liberties of the wrongly accused, but an irrelevant fact to gun control activists, still a win-win to them.
When the house judiciary committee purposely omits a notification clause from the new background check BS that they want that was intended to notify the right org when an illegal immigrant, or a felon tries to buy a firearm, it is no longer about anyone's safety.
The left wants a homemade from scratch chocolate cake with triple layers of frosting, and a good portion of those want it for free.
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This doesn't consider that guns are statistically used over a million times a year to prevent a crime. Gun control measures are far more likely to create victims..

Ray
 
Raythemanroe said:
This doesn't consider that guns are statistically used over a million times a year to prevent a crime. Gun control measures are far more likely to create victims..

Ray
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It is not me that needs convincing on that. These younger generations have a disdain for US Military, question if Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Hitler even did atrocious things. This problem way bigger than even trying to get Trump in office for 4 more yrs, the day is coming libs will control it all.
 
Joe Salt said:
All these guys have been told what to do all the Military Lives. You really think that makes them smart. I don't think so.

P.S. Tell me all the lies Trump has told you and me? Your not listening he is telling you what the government is up to.

Joe Salt
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Maybe you should do a little research on these Generals before you make an ignorant statement like that.
 
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Well said RR, unfortunately you hit the nail on the head as to opinions that would offer some sort of insight into the problem without going off on a tangent that dissolved into an argument. I don't know if there really is something that will work to solve some of the problems society in general face. We are overpopulated, we shit in our own nest, we have law upon law that go unenforced and yet the useless gits in the legislature pass more laws to justify their existence, I can go on and on and not come up with anything constructive , much to my own dismay.
 
Milo 2.0 said:
It is not me that needs convincing on that. These younger generations have a disdain for US Military, question if Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Hitler even did atrocious things. This problem way bigger than even trying to get Trump in office for 4 more yrs, the day is coming libs will control it all.
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Today's younger generation was purposely not taught about the atrocities of Hitler, Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot to create the situation and mind set we are facing. Their disdain for the military is only matched by the building hatred of the country and our founding fathers, rights and principals. I agree with you, there is a day coming when the libs will be in charge.
 
This isn't gonna sound good to a lot of folks.

These mass murders, (let's say 300 a year) are tragic and ugly, but no more so than any other 300 deaths that occur in our imperfect world every year. Heck, I'm pretty sure that more children than that are killed by their own parents every year.

The folks who cry the loudest about these deaths don't hate them, they cherish them. These deaths are the biggest tool in their arsenal for accomplishing their goal of relieving our population of our firearms; literally our means of defending our society and way of life.

If the cause of tragic death was their main concern, there are a dozen others which cause as much or more suffering, loss, and body count. Those don't interest them, because this isn't about death, it's about guns.

If we give up our gun rights, these deaths may decrease or increase.
If we preserve our gun rights, these deaths may decrease or increase.

The folks who think there is an easy solution, or any solution to this particular type of death are deluded, dishonest, and misinformed. Many are useful idiots who have been ramped up by the powers who want to take our guns.

Human life is incredibly special, and incredibly cheap. The stupidest phrase used for any life saving cause is "If it saves just one life....":rolleyes:

Many thousands, or millions of lives have been given to obtain and preserve the rights and privileges that we now enjoy. I'll bet that the givers of those lives would be disgusted to see those rights and privileges given away.

I'm getting long here, and I hate long posts. jd
 
Milo 2.0 said:
I am curious as to how you came to the conclusion that gun forum members could solve this, especially reasonably.
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I did not think the gun forum members could solve this. I mistakenly assumed that we were all on the same page IE: we don't want our 2A rights restricted OR eliminated all together, and we could have a discussion offering ideas purely to stimulate some serious thoughts on the subject, thats all.

As I said, if we gun owners can't engage in intelligent conversation over the issue, why would we expect legislatures to do so.
 
my concern with theses "Red Flag Laws" are the LEO themselves. Lets say a person does make threats to people, and is known to be erratic, and probably mentally ill. Who wants to be the one in uniform to go to his front door? Who knows what is going through his mind when a law enforcement vehicle or two pull up to his house?
 
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