Annealing with power drill

[muleman69]

I no lots of you have used a drill for years to anneal, my question is how long to leave it in the flame?

 

[Metal God]

With out getting into great detail it really depends on many factors .

Heat of the flame .
Angle and distance of the flame from the case ,

Many think it's a timing thing and it's not . It's a temperature thing and I've annealed cases using this torch and socket in a drill method . I have successfully annealed cases with a time in the flame from 4 to 8 seconds and all cases were heated to the same temperature . Although you are actually looking for a time in flame that works for you and your method . There is NO way to tell you what that time is with out using a temperature indicator like Tempilaq

450*
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01H4US4OC/?tag=accuratescom-20

750*
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01H4USIMA/?tag=accuratescom-20

I recommend you get a temperature indicating liquid to apply to the case in the proper area so you know when the case hits that temperature . You then can time how long "YOUR" system/method takes to reach the correct temperature . You then use that amount of time to anneal each of your cases .

I would recommend each new annealing session you do . You recalculate the temperature to time in flame ratio . This will allow for variances in flame size and heat as well as distance and location of the flame on the case from session to session .

The temperatures you are looking to achieve are 750* at the neck or 450* about 1/4" to 3/8" below the shoulder . Be sure the temperature indicator is never in direct contact with the flame .

 

[JayHHI6818]

Dang! Amazon is high priced on the tempilaq

McMaster Carr is much cheaper at $19.16.

https://www.mcmaster.com/#temperature-indicating-liquid/=1b4soe8

 

[Ledd Slinger]

Ohhh those were the days.....

I agree with the first reply. Can't say for sure because we don't know the cartridge and brass manufacturer you're using, how high you'll have the flame turned up, how far you will have the case from the flame, or how fast you be spinning the case.

Get tempilaq to make sure your doing it right. Then save up money as fast as you can and get an annealing machine!

 

[NorCalMikie]

I use Map Gas. Heats faster than Propane. 4 to 8 seconds in the flame. Watch for the color change of the brass.

 

[muleman69]

With out getting into great detail it really depends on many factors .

Heat of the flame .
Angle and distance of the flame from the case ,

Many think it's a timing thing and it's not . It's a temperature thing and I've annealed cases using this torch and socket in a drill method . I have successfully annealed cases with a time in the flame from 4 to 8 seconds and all cases were heated to the same temperature . Although you are actually looking for a time in flame that works for you and your method . There is NO way to tell you what that time is with out using a temperature indicator like Tempilaq

450*
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01H4US4OC/?tag=accuratescom-20

750*
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01H4USIMA/?tag=accuratescom-20

I recommend you get a temperature indicating liquid to apply to the case in the proper area so you know when the case hits that temperature . You then can time how long "YOUR" system/method takes to reach the correct temperature . You then use that amount of time to anneal each of your cases .

I would recommend each new annealing session you do . You recalculate the temperature to time in flame ratio . This will allow for variances in flame size and heat as well as distance and location of the flame on the case from session to session .

The temperatures you are looking to achieve are 750* at the neck or 450* about 1/4" to 3/8" below the shoulder . Be sure the temperature indicator is never in direct contact with the flame .
Great advice thanks, I will order some

With out getting into great detail it really depends on many factors .

Heat of the flame .
Angle and distance of the flame from the case ,

Many think it's a timing thing and it's not . It's a temperature thing and I've annealed cases using this torch and socket in a drill method . I have successfully annealed cases with a time in the flame from 4 to 8 seconds and all cases were heated to the same temperature . Although you are actually looking for a time in flame that works for you and your method . There is NO way to tell you what that time is with out using a temperature indicator like Tempilaq

450*
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01H4US4OC/?tag=accuratescom-20

750*
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01H4USIMA/?tag=accuratescom-20

I recommend you get a temperature indicating liquid to apply to the case in the proper area so you know when the case hits that temperature . You then can time how long "YOUR" system/method takes to reach the correct temperature . You then use that amount of time to anneal each of your cases .

I would recommend each new annealing session you do . You recalculate the temperature to time in flame ratio . This will allow for variances in flame size and heat as well as distance and location of the flame on the case from session to session .

The temperatures you are looking to achieve are 750* at the neck or 450* about 1/4" to 3/8" below the shoulder . Be sure the temperature indicator is never in direct contact with the flame .

 

[muleman69]

Thanks I will order some Tempilaq

 

[muleman69]

Ohhh those were the days.....

I agree with the first reply. Can't say for sure because we don't know the cartridge and brass manufacturer you're using, how high you'll have the flame turned up, how far you will have the case from the flame, or how fast you be spinning the case.

Get tempilaq to make sure your doing it right. Then save up money as fast as you can and get an annealing machine!

Okay thank you, I no there is so many variables to get it right. Just starting out and need all the good advice I can get

 

[T-shooter]

Always use the same setting on the flame and at the same distance for the same amount of time. Best to take a bunch of old brass and experiment. Under and over cook some to see what happens. Put the heat on the shoulder, not the neck. The neck will get hot anyway because it can't dissipate the heat. This is an old picture when I was experimenting with the temperature sticks. This was pulled when the 450° melted here. I drop them in water to stop the annealing process. When right, I can see a slight amount of springback when squeezing with with pliers. (a very light touch and only a couple thousandths, ... just enough to see). When the metal is overdone, it's dead and however much you flatten it, it stays there. I took an overcooked one and resized and expanded it at least 50 times. The metal would not come back and was dead soft. I use a very low flame letting it wrap around the case and from about an inch away. For me and my method, .308's take about 6-7 seconds and .223's about 4-5.

 

[muleman69]

Always use the same setting on the flame and at the same distance for the same amount of time. Best to take a bunch of old brass and experiment. Under and over cook some to see what happens. Put the heat on the shoulder, not the neck. The neck will get hot anyway because it can't dissipate the heat. This is an old picture when I was experimenting with the temperature sticks. This was pulled when the 450° melted here. I drop them in water to stop the annealing process. When right, I can see a slight amount of springback when squeezing with with pliers. (a very light touch and only a couple thousandths, ... just enough to see). When the metal is overdone, it's dead and however much you flatten it, it stays there. I took an overcooked one and resized and expanded it at least 50 times. The metal would not come back and was dead soft. I use a very low flame letting it wrap around the case and from about an inch away. For me and my method, .308's take about 6-7 seconds and .223's about 4-5.
View attachment 1032629

Would you sat 6-8 for 300 win

 

[johnfred1965]

Watch for the color change of the brass.

This is what I do.
Anneal right after cleaning

 

[jepp2]

my question is how long to leave it in the flame?

Just to give you another data point. I use two torches with the inner light blue flames meeting. For 223 it takes 2.5 seconds. I have the flames aimed at the base of the shoulder where the body meets the shoulder. The pictures below show how the flame front spreads when the flames meet. Using 1 torch it takes 4.8 seconds for 223.

It will all depend the case your are annealing, how you have the flame adjusted, and where you put the case in the flame.

 

[Someoldguy]

I use Map Gas. Heats faster than Propane. 4 to 8 seconds in the flame. Watch for the color change of the brass.

This is what I have used. I also anneal in a dark room so the color change is easier to see. Doesn't take too long for me usually, about 10 seconds.
I reform a lot of LC 308 brass so it's necessary to anneal during that process.

 

[Prose]

Testing each time is a good recommendation. Usually I'll take one or two cases (fliers or some other cull) and hit them with my dual torches in a pitch black room. Once I know how long it takes to see the color I know what "too much" is. From there I usually cut the time in half and fiddle around till I think I've got it. I don't compete so I can live with the variation.

 

[T-shooter]

Would you sat 6-8 for 300 win

You need to experiment some to know. The distance, width of the flame, and temperature will all make a difference. The 300 WM should be similar to the .308 as far as annealing.

 

[muleman69]

You need to experiment some to know. The distance, width of the flame, and temperature will all make a difference. The 300 WM should be similar to the .308 as far as annealing.

I will experiment with old cases.TKS

 

[Lapua40X]

Well actually, Muleman, previous points of view notwithstanding, annealing is neither a time nor a heat consideration - exclusively. It's the amount of heat applied, where and how it's applied, and the amount of time the heat is applied. Unless you can accurately hold a repeatable drill spindle speed, a consistent flame, an unvarying position in the flame, and control all of the other variables I'd recommend you bite the bullet (p;un is intentional) and, if funds are tight, either build an annealer or buy something like the Annealeez.

 

[6.5plinker]

Would The Woodchuck Den Series II Annealing Tool be more accrual way to anneal over the drill method?

 

[muleman69]

Would The Woodchuck Den Series II Annealing Tool be more accrual way to anneal over the drill method?
View attachment 1032680

This looks interesting, Is there anybody out there familiar with this device?

 

[Brians356]

It depends of why type of torch you use. I use a kitchen-grade (think crème brûlée) butane torch, not nearly as hot as typical handyman propane. Using 475-deg Tempilaq 3/8" below shoulder point, and a cheap musical metronome to click seconds, I determined 223 cases take ~12 seconds, and 6mm Rem ~15 seconds. Now I dispense with Tempilaq and just count seconds for each class of case. For 270 Win I would probably just count 18 seconds. With butane, case-to-case consistency matters more that ET, as the heat builds up relatively slowly, so 15 vs 17 seconds on a 6mm Rem isn't going to matter much, as long as they are all exposed for the same 15 seconds.

http://forum.accurateshooter.com/th...ut-bare-with-me-please.3852812/#post-36451728
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