When I fire 15 consecutive shots as required in Palma matches and they're all like this I can't find much reason for driving back and forth!
15shot by Sharps Man, on Flickr
Long range load development at 100 yards.
- Thread starter Erik Cortina
- Start date
When I fire 15 consecutive shots as required in Palma matches and they're all like this I can't find much reason for driving back and forth!
15shot by Sharps Man, on Flickr43-43.5Ok, here's my attempt using the OPs method. Would like some feedback. Trying to find the magic in my .308 using 185 Juggernauts and Varget. Charge weight notes on top and group distance from vertical on bottom. No chrono data. Light at the range today was throwing off some strange numbers
If I understand this method correctly, the two contiguous groups with closest distance to vertical is the node. Would that be #4 and #5 or #5 and #6?
Or maybe #3 and #4?
I'm thinking two areas- 22.4-23 with 22.7 the middle. And 23.9-24.5. 24.5 was a bit hot with some primer cratering. So about 23-9-24.3. Any comments?
Seating test done today with Varget 22.7, 100m 8-10 quartering downwind. Do you pick the lowest SD or the best group? Do you need a good group on either side? Comments please.
In addition, can I assume, that if the same loading techniques are performed, that the SD's will remain similar across the seating depths to what was seen during this test?
1.899-1.902, and tiny powder changes. Forget about sd/es. Let them come to you if they will
Thanks Seymour! I'll give it a go.
Kurt
So once you move from charge weight to seating depth, are you still looking for least about of deviation from vertical or smallest group?
Great shooting Rick. One day I would like to try my pea shooter (6mm Dasher) at 1000 yards....if you would allow a novice 1000 yd shooter to use your range. Good shooting...James MockWhen I fire 15 consecutive shots as required in Palma matches and they're all like this I can't find much reason for driving back and forth!
James
You aren't a novice....I pay attention to what has been going on up at the Pioneer Range! You know how to hold!
I'll send you a PM with my cell number! You're welcome anytime!
Here's the latest: Ten rounds from 900 yards. The AR500 plate is 32x34" dimension.
308 Win/Remington M700 factory barrel/action by Sharps Man, on FlickrHere's my continuation of finding a good .308 185 Juggernaut load with a seating depth test. Again, I appreciate any feedback you have
I was surprised by the variation with such small changes in OAL. More flyers than I thought there would be
I would say it's between #2 and #3
I was surprised by the variation with such small changes in OAL. More flyers than I thought there would be
I would say it's between #2 and #3
I went with 0.016" off of jam and it seems to have come together pretty good. Shot these groups today
.308 185g juggernauts
Lapua brass
43.5g Varget
Fed. 210 primers
.308 185g juggernauts
Lapua brass
43.5g Varget
Fed. 210 primers
Good shooting. Looks like a good combination.I went with 0.016" off of jam and it seems to have come together pretty good. Shot these groups today
.308 185g juggernauts
Lapua brass
43.5g Varget
Fed. 210 primers
I usually use 3 shot groups just to get an initial point to work but have learned not to trust them too much. 5 is better, and at least 10 to confirm a load and re-shoot any pulled shots. Here is a .308 series of targets. I only changed the jump between each group and fired 1 shot each in group 1 through 6 and then started over again. This was with Lapua brass, 41.7 grains of IMR4064, Federal match primers, and Hornady 168g BTHP Match bullets. 30 rounds all together at 100 yards off a rest. The 4064 powder shoots better on a good day but seems sensitive to temperature so I usually just use Varget now.
[QUOTE="Erik Cortina, post: 36639205, member: 1217825
Broadside, get away from neck sizing and F/L size your brass everytime with .002" shoulder bump. Brass will chamber and extract easier and it will be more consistent since brass will always be the same size it enters the chamber.
[/QUOTE]
Greetings from New Zealand. I only found this site a month or so ago and that was via this post. Since then I've learnt much and now sadly realise how little I know about precision reloading. I've searched many sites, forums, you tube, etc to get a better understanding of this hobby yet I still don't fully understand the art of precision case prep. I wish someone would start a step by step thread on the subject...... Just saying....
I've seen Erik mention before that full length resizing is a must and I was one of the many, I guess, who was under the belief that neck sizing was the way to go. I'm not fortunate enough to have a custom rifle or custom dies so my concern is that FL resizing will work the brass too much and/or bump the shoulder back more than 0.002" if the case is run into the die far enough to resize it completey. And from what I've seen it will also reduce the overall case size too much.
I know this thread is all about load development but since FL resizing is strongly recommended by Erik I'd like to get to grips with this so my load development actually works. The last two 223 loads I did for different rifles didn't clearly show any nodes and both had a large extreme spreads. I'm putting this down to poor case prep cause by my ignorance.
So, does FL resizing mean just that or is it resizing the full case slightly with custom dies?
Broadside, get away from neck sizing and F/L size your brass everytime with .002" shoulder bump. Brass will chamber and extract easier and it will be more consistent since brass will always be the same size it enters the chamber.
[/QUOTE]
Greetings from New Zealand. I only found this site a month or so ago and that was via this post. Since then I've learnt much and now sadly realise how little I know about precision reloading. I've searched many sites, forums, you tube, etc to get a better understanding of this hobby yet I still don't fully understand the art of precision case prep. I wish someone would start a step by step thread on the subject...... Just saying....
I've seen Erik mention before that full length resizing is a must and I was one of the many, I guess, who was under the belief that neck sizing was the way to go. I'm not fortunate enough to have a custom rifle or custom dies so my concern is that FL resizing will work the brass too much and/or bump the shoulder back more than 0.002" if the case is run into the die far enough to resize it completey. And from what I've seen it will also reduce the overall case size too much.
I know this thread is all about load development but since FL resizing is strongly recommended by Erik I'd like to get to grips with this so my load development actually works. The last two 223 loads I did for different rifles didn't clearly show any nodes and both had a large extreme spreads. I'm putting this down to poor case prep cause by my ignorance.
So, does FL resizing mean just that or is it resizing the full case slightly with custom dies?
Greetings from New Zealand. I only found this site a month or so ago and that was via this post. Since then I've learnt much and now sadly realise how little I know about precision reloading. I've searched many sites, forums, you tube, etc to get a better understanding of this hobby yet I still don't fully understand the art of precision case prep. I wish someone would start a step by step thread on the subject...... Just saying....
I've seen Erik mention before that full length resizing is a must and I was one of the many, I guess, who was under the belief that neck sizing was the way to go. I'm not fortunate enough to have a custom rifle or custom dies so my concern is that FL resizing will work the brass too much and/or bump the shoulder back more than 0.002" if the case is run into the die far enough to resize it completey. And from what I've seen it will also reduce the overall case size too much.
I know this thread is all about load development but since FL resizing is strongly recommended by Erik I'd like to get to grips with this so my load development actually works. The last two 223 loads I did for different rifles didn't clearly show any nodes and both had a large extreme spreads. I'm putting this down to poor case prep cause by my ignorance.
So, does FL resizing mean just that or is it resizing the full case slightly with custom dies?[/QUOTE]
This is from Shootdots recommendations for precision preparation of brass.
I have followed his methods with great success in reduction of runout and improved accuracy. Hope this helps.
"
Here is what you do to ANY brass, Lapua or not, to make them shoot properly. If you are not improving the cartridge (i.e. making an Ackley) or completely forming it, like making a BRX or Dasher, you can make virgin brass fire as accurately as fireformed brass.
1.) Expand the necks. If it's a .22 cal or whatever, get a .22 expander mandrel and expand the necks. This will push most, if not all, of the imperfections in the neck to the outside. TRICK: when expanding the case necks, run the case up in the mandrel body die and then back off, spin the case about 1/3rd turn, run back up in the die. Do this 3 or 4 times (it takes an extra 5 seconds) and you will feel the case gong up in the die very smoothly>>>then you know the imperfections have been pushed to the outside.
2.) If it is a "no turn neck", at least skim-turn your necks to about 90 percent "clean-up". This will turn off the imperfections you just pushed to the outside.
3.) Anneal the necks>>>even on virgin brass
4.) Chamfer the inside and outside of the case mouths.
5.) Heat has a way of moving metal. So, run the brass back thru the mandrel to straighten up the necks>> using the spin method once again...
6.) Using a "used / carboned up" neck brush, vigorously brush out the necks.
7.) Prime the case
8.) Using a Q-Tip, swab out the inside of the case neck with Imperial DRY neck lube.
9.) Charge your case with powder,
10.) Seat your bullet.
If you do this to virgin brass, you will not see a difference between the virgin and fireformed brass. DON'T do this with virgin Lapua (or any brass) brass and you are kidding yourself!
Last edited: Mar 20, 2017"
Erik Cortina
Team Lapua Brux Borden Captain
Get a base to shoulder measurement on fired brass that is getting snug on your gun. Back die off about 1/4 turn from touching shell holder and F/L size a piece of brass. Measure base to shoulder again. If same, thread die down a little more (I make a witness mark on ring and on die threads to keep track). Keep doing this until shoulder starts to move. Warning: Shoulder will first move forward, this is normal due to case being squeezed down on the sides thus growing). Keep going until base to shoulder measurement is .002 - .003 less than the original measurement. Check the sized brass for function on your rifle. If all works as it should, lock die down and it is set for the life of the barrel.
Last edited by a moderator:
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