Good for a laugh

[snert]

Is gain twist an option on the external?

I think if I use two pair of torches to heat it and two sets of vice grips, maybe. But it will work better if two of us try together. Maybe when you come up to shoot a groundhog this summer, we can try it on your rifle?

 

[daniel brothers]

I'll also come out there and help you shoot groundhogs.... and bring another set of vice grips... because a third twister is mandatory above your sea level elevation.

 

[snert]

I'll also come out there and help you shoot groundhogs.... and bring another set of vice grips... because a third twister is mandatory above your sea level elevation.

As long as we try it on your gun too!

 

[Richard Jones]

As long as we try it on your gun first!
Fixed it for you............

 

[daniel brothers]

Great.... if you have the groundhogs.... I'll bring a barrel for twisting the outside.... because the inside is all twisted up already.

It shoots great right now... one hole groups out to 1000 yds...

but only one shot groups at a time.

 

[hunter243sgk]

I heard boltfluter can twist your barrel and your bolt to make the twist faster. I have seen his work and though I admit I do not understand it, nor have I used it, it sure does look great. By the looks of it to me, the deep outside twist tightens the bore, imparting a hammered rifling to the inside of the bore. Swaging the inside after twisting, using a stainless button and a mix of kroil and JB paste will then smooth any imperfections, remove the dreaded carbon donut and allow you to moly coat your hybrid VLD with danzac which makes the bore less apt to collect moisture and corrode when you store it underground. If you also coat your cartridges in templac it will allow them to be stored longer, and will assure that your bullets do not become welded to the inside of your cases, which, if it happens, causes irregularity and vertical strings of the vapor trail you can see to mark your shots. I always coat my brass in templac after loading, so I can avoid that welding action. I also seat my bullets with only .0002 neck tension using a modified and honed (I use a chicken bone and JB paste to hone) bushing. The templac also serves to anneal my case WHILE firing, which saves me a step later. I am all about efficiency.

when cooking the bullet with a torch, it is best not to use a loaded cartridge to hold it. I hold the bullet tip in my finger and heat the bottom of the bullet. When it gets too hot to hold I simply drop it in water. Of course everyone has a different sensitivity to heat, so YMMV. Just make sure you do not hold the base and heat the tip, as this will cause bullet droop, which will result in fishtailing of the bullet. I might mention that this was the original OP's issue. Surprised no one here diagnosed it earlier.

That's the ticket..

u aint rght. But I got a good laugh out of it!! Ha Ha

 

[snert]

I researched the Mobis Strip barrel and decided mine is not infringing, and since there is already a VORTEK barrel, I am calling mine the "Dor-K-Tec" barrel. Seems fitting.

 

[snert]

I see my idea is catching on...Boltfluter is offering a bolt shroud with flats so you can git a good grip with the vise-grips....

Just teasing BF, nice work on those shrouds!

 

[Shoebox]

Quick question
Just got my brand new 4 grove 1-11 twist pac nor super match barrel
And want to external gain twist it

What are the vice grip spacings I've all reading welded one set to the muzzle

I don't have snert to help me with "MY " barrel
I thought that was real nice of snert to offer Mr majestic his help,

Metric or imperial measurement OK
You guys are great !!
Oh PS is the barrel supposed change colour like that or did I get it to hot
Look forward to your help

Thanks in advance,!!

 

[wholman]

I learnd something on this thread I have been
using to many bullets for a one whole group.
Thank you.

 

[snert]

Geez Shoebox! Ya shoulda writ to me. I am just sitting here with an adult beverage or three and have lots of time to help.

Well, first, the heat from the weld is no problem. I generally just burn off the tack weld when done. If too much stays on, drill and tap it for an accessory, like a flashlight. Tacticool is in.The discoloration is often mistaken for charcoal case hardening by the great unwashed newbies that see it. Kinda adds to the beauty of the twist. Or, if you don't like it, spray on some baked enamel porch paint...less expensive than Ducolax or whatever that paint is called that they sell at Brownells. Just bake it on with a butane (not propane) torch. No worries.

Now, on spacing, I find that if you want the bolt to match the twist of the barrel, leave the bolt in and attach the vice grips right over the bolt too. If not, then just attach it in front the lug nut that hangs down off the barrel into the stock. That way the twist starts right in front of the bullet...and the cartridge markings don't get all cattywampuss. No real way to give a specific vice grip to barrel measurement formula. Every barrel is different and will have different harmonics. I generally just go with the end and the other end. Seems to work well. Maybe one of our math guys or engineers can chime in. Where is JRS when I need him? I have not done a rimfire barrel yet, but I might suggest slugging the barrel first, anyways. That way if you find a loose place, you can put the grips over it. Might take care of two problems at the same time. I do know that my barrels all shoot better with a bit of choke on the muzzle.

I find that if you slide a piece of pipe over the handle of the vice grips, and put the other end of the barrel in a heavy vise, you can get enough leverage to do it yourself. In fact, when Mr M comes up, i planned to do this with his rifle after he went to bed. figured if I did the job myself as a gift, he would always remember his trip here to hunt.

Now some guys are heating the barrel to make twistin it easier. Most are using a bed of charcoal. I think that simply setting the barrel over the gas grill in place of the rotisserie thing will hold it in place to heat it evenly. You have a temp handle adjuster thing on the front and a thermometer, why not use it. Much more scientific and easier too. No burning your beard when you are blowin on the coals to heat em up. You can close the grill, and then templac in the dark will tell ya when it is annealed enough to start twisting. Remember, if it is a tapered barrel, heat the big end first, so you get even twist. Those guys that heat it small end first end up with "gain twist" and well that is infringing on someone else' mistake...idea I mean.

Photos please! I will look forward to seeing your work

Snert

 

[Shoebox]

Geez Shoebox! Ya shoulda writ to me. I am just sitting here with an adult beverage or three and have lots of time to help.

Well, first, the heat from the weld is no problem. I generally just burn off the tack weld when done. If too much stays on, drill and tap it for an accessory, like a flashlight. Tacticool is in.The discoloration is often mistaken for charcoal case hardening by the great unwashed newbies that see it. Kinda adds to the beauty of the twist. Or, if you don't like it, spray on some baked enamel porch paint...less expensive than Ducolax or whatever that paint is called that they sell at Brownells. Just bake it on with a butane (not propane) torch. No worries.

Now, on spacing, I find that if you want the bolt to match the twist of the barrel, leave the bolt in and attach the vice grips right over the bolt too. If not, then just attach it in front the lug nut that hangs down off the barrel into the stock. That way the twist starts right in front of the bullet...and the cartridge markings don't get all cattywampuss. No real way to give a specific vice grip to barrel measurement formula. Every barrel is different and will have different harmonics. I generally just go with the end and the other end. Seems to work well. Maybe one of our math guys or engineers can chime in. Where is JRS when I need him? I have not done a rimfire barrel yet, but I might suggest slugging the barrel first, anyways. That way if you find a loose place, you can put the grips over it. Might take care of two problems at the same time. I do know that my barrels all shoot better with a bit of choke on the muzzle.

I find that if you slide a piece of pipe over the handle of the vice grips, and put the other end of the barrel in a heavy vise, you can get enough leverage to do it yourself. In fact, when Mr M comes up, i planned to do this with his rifle after he went to bed. figured if I did the job myself as a gift, he would always remember his trip here to hunt.

Now some guys are heating the barrel to make twistin it easier. Most are using a bed of charcoal. I think that simply setting the barrel over the gas grill in place of the rotisserie thing will hold it in place to heat it evenly. You have a temp handle adjuster thing on the front and a thermometer, why not use it. Much more scientific and easier too. No burning your beard when you are blowin on the coals to heat em up. You can close the grill, and then templac in the dark will tell ya when it is annealed enough to start twisting. Remember, if it is a tapered barrel, heat the big end first, so you get even twist. Those guys that heat it small end first end up with "gain twist" and well that is infringing on someone else' mistake...idea I mean.

Photos please! I will look forward to seeing your work

Snert

Snert I couldn't wait so I started last night, I used the gas barbeque , you know the one, two small burner one on each end big one in middle, as always test everything before you start !
I didn't like the color change from the weld so I tried just using grips on the outside of chamber, but they slipped an chew a channel,
So i stopped and had a think about it !
So I just ground two flats on that threaded bit, so you can't see them, just as well I'm not real good with a grinder!

Right all ready to go, on the heat it went, I new I had time to kill so i went up stairs, buddy turned up few beers lot of highly technical discussion ! Cause were pretty smarter ! Then next thing buddy says see ya later , and boy am I ready to twist that barrel , so lift the lid and i could see the barrel was ready, chamber end had soft glow going ,muzzle was a bit brighter but the middle had that " bright red " look !
Let's get this done, so I grabbed the vice grips ( s**t hot hot ) dropped the barrel on the concrete floor, I think it may have bent a little but I got that out when I twisted, I looked down the barrel and it looks pretty straight !!
With the twist, first 10"/ is about 1- 14 next 10" roughly 8- 10 next 6" is nearly straight, had to cut vice grip of with grinder but I'll fix that up with a file

But all in all I'm pretty happy with the result , do you think 8-10t is enough gain.
Anyway going to do some pressure and accuracy test I the morning I bet u will be interested in how that goes
Just want to say with out your help i would be in the position I'm in now
Thanks

 

[Shoebox]

Snert I couldn't wait so I started last night, I used the gas barbeque , you know the one, two small burner one on each end big one in middle, as always test everything before you start !
I didn't like the color change from the weld so I tried just using grips on the outside of chamber, but they slipped an chew a channel,
So i stopped and had a think about it !
So I just ground two flats on that threaded bit, so you can't see them, just as well I'm not real good with a grinder!

Right all ready to go, on the heat it went, I new I had time to kill so i went up stairs, buddy turned up few beers lot of highly technical discussion ! Cause were pretty smarter ! Then next thing buddy says see ya later , and boy am I ready to twist that barrel , so lift the lid and i could the barrel was ready, chamber end had soft glow going ,muzzle was a bit brighter but the middle had that " bright red " look !
Let's get this done, so I grabbed the vice grips ( s**t hot hot ) dropped the barrel on the concrete floor, I think it may have bent a little but I got that out when I twisted, I looked down the barrel and it looks pretty straight !!
With the twist, first 10"/ is about 1- 14 next 10" roughly 8- 10 next 6" is nearly straight, had to cut vice grip of with grinder but I'll fix that up with a file

But all in all I'm pretty happy with the result , do you think 8-10t is enough gain.
Anyway going to do some pressure and accuracy test I the morning I bet u will be interested in how that goes
Just want to say with out your help i would be in the position I'm in now
Thanks

Snert testing didn't go as well as I expected, man that thing kicks like a mule, with the first shot I seen smoke coming out of the breach , I new straight away I didn't get the head spacing right , that is going to be a Hassel I had to screw the barrel on with a monkey wrench , any way I'll go back tomorrow !!
PS thanks again !!

 

[284winner]

Hey I can fix you up with one! I apologize to josh if I caused you any grief. I should have deleted the name before I posted it. But, back to the Savage, it will shoot quarter size groups all day long.... if you do your part. HA HA

Hornady just announced the release of their new line of fish tail bullets.

 

[snert]

Hornady just announced the release of their new line of fish tail bullets.

Da##it! Just when I get my barrel twist idea off the ground and it is spreading via social media like a good case of the flu, some commercial big capitalist company goes and cicumlocutes me with a mass produced bullet design!

 

[snert]

Snert testing didn't go as well as I expected, man that thing kicks like a mule, with the first shot I seen smoke coming out of the breach , I new straight away I didn't get the head spacing right , that is going to be a Hassel I had to screw the barrel on with a monkey wrench , any way I'll go back tomorrow !!
PS thanks again !!

Shoebox! Sure glad I was able to help. Last I looked you can adjust yer headspace by using a feeler gauge. Once you get that barrel off again (check the threads for remaining dingleberries from the manufacturing process) you can put it back on. Try Vasaline on the threads. Then stick the feeler guage between the barrel edge and the action face. Tighten down and keep adjusting till you can close the bolt easily. I suggest you just leave it in the vice, fire the rifle into a backstop and adjust using pairings of the feelers till it stops smoking when you fire it. Then you will be right on. This will allow you to avoid having to push back the shoulder every time you resize. No need to shave any shellholders or cut down your dies. I do suggest that you avoid getting a concentrating gauge for your reloads. Since you eyeballed the barrel, it is my bet it is fine and your fired brass will fit the chamber perfectly. Besides those concentrating instruments bring nothing but heartburn anyhow and you will likely never see it on the target, if you do your part.
PS: I do not think the new fishtailing bullets are gonna take off. Stick with the twisted idea.
Snert

 

[stork]

With the twist, first 10"/ is about 1- 14 next 10" roughly 8- 10 next 6" is nearly straight, had to cut vice grip of with grinder but I'll fix that up with a file

Shoebox, I'm gonna cut you some slack cuz obviously, you're new at this variable twist game. You gotta remember to give that last 6" some extra spin to stabilize those bullets correctly. 1 in 3 sounds about right.

Lest we forget, we need to remember to properly chrio, chyrio, cool the barrel down. That's why you always need to have that 72 quart beer cooler full of ice water and beer to dunk that red hot, newly gain twisted barrel in. And, as long as you got your hand in there, might as well pass me one. Once the beer is all gone, the barrel is properly cooled.
Al

 

[snert]

Shoebox, I'm gonna cut you some slack cuz obviously, you're new at this variable twist game. You gotta remember to give that last 6" some extra spin to stabilize those bullets correctly. 1 in 3 sounds about right.

Lest we forget, we need to remember to properly chrio, chyrio, cool the barrel down. That's why you always need to have that 72 quart beer cooler full of ice water and beer to dunk that red hot, newly gain twisted barrel in. And, as long as you got your hand in there, might as well pass me one. Once the beer is all gone, the barrel is properly cooled.
Al

This is why this is the best shooting instructional gunsmithing and accuracy site on the entire internet. When a bunch of us get our heads together it becomes a synthesis of creativity and scientific breakthru. Great idea Stork.

 

[Shoebox]

Hey snert
I think stork has been sneaking around my shed, probably recognized the precision work I do !
But he gave himself away, how does he know I've got a 72 quart beer cooler notice he didn't say (a 72 he said that 72) so I've put up a few trail Cam's and don't give me that (your paranoid line )
I don't care if he does live 10 000 mile away, there are people on this site who have hacked into the CIA
People will go to any length to acquire my technical expertise
is that you stork ??

 

[Shoebox]

This is why this is the best shooting instructional gunsmithing and accuracy site on the entire internet. When a bunch of us get our heads together it becomes a synthesis of creativity and scientific breakthru. Great idea Stork.

Snert
We should all get together and nut out
A few ideas someone could post a question or theory and we all brain storm it for laughs or learning !!
A buy the look's of the post here we all like a laugh and learning √