Turn Your FX-120i into a Prometheus

[spclark]

Before word of Adam's accessilories reached me, I'd light charge a case block of cases then dump each into the pan scale, Omega-trickle up then dump that into the same case in a second block. Best I could do with 50 cases had been ~ 35 minutes.

Adding Adam's device to my new scale with two matched pans I did 50 in ~ 10 minutes in my 2nd session with it, still light-charging 50 cases first.

With the drop straight to the pan now I need handle each case but once for charging. Last night I loaded 81 in ~ 15 minutes.

I guess if I were loading more than 200 cases regularly more automation'd be a blessing.

 

[Mark Johnson]

Sheldon, I think you're onto the start of a great idea.

I've been thinking how to minimize the "handling time" of moving two pans around and how get the powder into the case with less hand movement along the lines of the Prometheus with the auto-dumping funnel.

A tipping powder pan that dumps the charge into a short chute leading directly to a case funnel would be fast.

Taking a cue from the Prometheus, I could hang the front of the storage cube off the edge of the workbench and have the funnel poking out the bottom of the storage cube. Place a case under the funnel, tip the pan, done.

Now, for the next step... you could automatically tip the powder pan with a motorized hook suspended under the lip of the tipping powder pan. Normally the hook would not touch the pan and affect the weight the scale sees, but when you're ready to dump the hook could cycle upwards, grabbing the lip to tip and dump the pan into the chute/funnel/case, and then lowers the pan back onto the scale ready for the next charge.

The tipping mechanism could be cycled manually via pushbutton or automatically via an optical switch at the tip of the funnel so it dumps the pan when the case neck is presented to the funnel. Could even put it on a microswitch so you have to lightly press upwards on the funnel ensuring the case is seated into the funnel to avoid any spills. Charge dumps into the case automatically, pan returns to the home position, the scale sees zero again, the powder measure and trickler do their thing, seat the bullet in the case you just charged, repeat.

Another benefit to this approach is since everything at that point will be self contained inside the storage cube you could put a lexan cover over the front to seal it off and block out all influence from drafts.

Of course the combined weight of the pan, tipping holder, and your maximum charge weight all has to come in under the maximum 120 gram capacity of the FX-120i, so building it light will be a must.

I think I can make this happen.

First thing to do though is get my measure integrated with Adam's trickler to cycle automatically, then I'll start figuring out the automatic dumping pan / chute / funnel arrangement.

Sign me up for this preorder too

 

[Kiba]

Before word of Adam's accessilories reached me, I'd light charge a case block of cases then dump each into the pan scale, Omega-trickle up then dump that into the same case in a second block. Best I could do with 50 cases had been ~ 35 minutes.

Adding Adam's device to my new scale with two matched pans I did 50 in ~ 10 minutes in my 2nd session with it, still light-charging 50 cases first.

With the drop straight to the pan now I need handle each case but once for charging. Last night I loaded 81 in ~ 15 minutes.

I guess if I were loading more than 200 cases regularly more automation'd be a blessing.

81 cases in 15 minutes is impressive, that's 11 seconds per charge on average. Way faster than my tuned chargemaster could ever manage and obviously with far better accuracy.

I agree on your thoughts on automation... for a low volume reloader the level of automation I'm envisioning is probably more complicated than necessary. For a high volume reloader though I feel it can be worth the extra complication. Most of my rifle reloading sessions during the year are 300-350 rounds at a time and I want them to be over with quickly. I love shooting, but find reloading a necessary evil required to support shooting. LOL. The less time spent at the reloading bench, the better!

In the couple of weeks before my ground squirrel blasting trip every spring I load about 1200-1500 rounds between the 3 rifles that I take... and another 1200-1500 rounds for my friend's 3 rifles that he takes since he doesn't have his own reloading equipment. It's a lot of time spent in front of the bench.

Since we're planning on at least two and hopefully 3-4 trips this next spring requring that much ammo every trip if the shooting is good, automation *will* be a blessing.

It's still a lot of press cycling for the case prep though, but at least I can substantially speed up the actual loading portion of the process. Constantly waiting on the chargemaster is/was frustrating!

Might have to buy that 3D printer sooner rather than later. I think I have an idea for a simple powder pan, chute, and trap-door device to drop the powder... it works in my head anyways, just need to make one and try it. Found that they make carbon impregnated conductive filament for 3D printers so that alleviates my concern about static buildup on plastic components causing drift and false readings from the scale or the powder clinging to it. Being able to 3D print the powder pan & chute opens up an entirely new line of thinking to fabricate that way.

 

[adamjmac]

Nice shout-out by John Whidden in his article yesterday:

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2016/08/whidden-on-winning-at-long-range-part-2-the-cartridge/

 

[memilanuk]

Nice shout-out by John Whidden in his article yesterday

That's awesome! I might have to move my AutoTrickler and scale a little closer to my 550... though I may end up tweaking the sensitivity on the scale down a notch for it to behave near that many moving parts.

We need to get John on here to give us the skinny on his setup!

 

[ramesrames]

I started my own project. I am using Raspberry PI, USB to RS-232 DB9 Serial Adapter, Straight Through Serial Cable - DB9 F/F, L298N DC Stepper Motor Driver Module Dual H Bridge Control Board, waiting for stepper motor and RCBS trickler (I have Redding one). Looking for pulley's.

On picture: I am using CD ROM motor for emulation, writing code, I'll adapt it to actual autotrickler system. It will not be available commercialy

ETA: May be I've rushed to buy motor and trickler. I found enough info how to making Dandy like trickler with mobile phone vibro motor. It is easy to manipulate with Dandy like trickler from Raspberry.

 

[Kiba]

Thanks to Adam, my powder measure and Adam's trickler are now integrated and automated much like a chargemaster; when an empty pan is placed back on the scale and stabilizes at zero Adam's arduino signals my arduino to drop the bulk charge and the trickler finishes the charge. If you place a partially filled pan on the scale only the trickler runs. Still doing a little tuning as running the servo full speed disturbs the scale a bit and can cause the trickler to slow down prematurely. Slightly pausing the powder measure at the bottom of the stroke and then having it return home seems to work better and results in shorter overall cycle times.

Made a couple small hardware changes too. Added a switch to disconnect the automatic trigger for the powder measure from the scale, mostly for the initial setup of the measure and "priming" the trickler. I also added a relay and some additional code so the arduino can power down the powder measure servo after 5 minutes of system inactivity-- so if you happen to leave the machine plugged in or get distracted and walk away the servo isn't sitting energized the entire time.

Anyways, video of the system now running in automatic mode...

 

[Endyo]

It's very exciting seeing just how far Adam's trickler will go.

I got to use my for the first actual reloading session yesterday. It had definitely sped things up, but I still have some kinks to work out.

 

[hkfan45]

This looks excellent. Do plan to sell the plans at all? How easy do you think someone else could replicate this build?

Thanks to Adam, my powder measure and Adam's trickler are now integrated and automated much like a chargemaster; when an empty pan is placed back on the scale and stabilizes at zero Adam's arduino signals my arduino to drop the bulk charge and the trickler finishes the charge. If you place a partially filled pan on the scale only the trickler runs. Still doing a little tuning as running the servo full speed disturbs the scale a bit and can cause the trickler to slow down prematurely. Slightly pausing the powder measure at the bottom of the stroke and then having it return home seems to work better and results in shorter overall cycle times.

Made a couple small hardware changes too. Added a switch to disconnect the automatic trigger for the powder measure from the scale, mostly for the initial setup of the measure and "priming" the trickler. I also added a relay and some additional code so the arduino can power down the powder measure servo after 5 minutes of system inactivity-- so if you happen to leave the machine plugged in or get distracted and walk away the servo isn't sitting energized the entire time.

Anyways, video of the system now running in automatic mode...

 

[Mooster1223]

If I use the trickler for the Sartorius Entris64-1S, will it be able to use the extra resolution of the scale? I figure, buy once, cry once.

 

[adamjmac]

If I use the trickler for the Sartorius Entris64-1S, will it be able to use the extra resolution of the scale? I figure, buy once, cry once.

Yes the Entris will provide more accurate data to the trickler. However the extra precision will have no practical effect on the actual performance of the trickler. It can't cut kernels into tiny pieces for you

 

[rardoin]

Yes the Entris will provide more accurate data to the trickler. However the extra precision will have no practical effect on the actual performance of the trickler. It can't cut kernels into tiny pieces for you

Should I start a new thread for my Arduino controlled kernel guillotine cutter that will interface with the autotricker and an Entris 64?

Oh, nevermind, it is 9/1, not 4/1....

 

[Mooster1223]

Yes the Entris will provide more accurate data to the trickler. However the extra precision will have no practical effect on the actual performance of the trickler. It can't cut kernels into tiny pieces for you

I wonder how practical it would be to under charge with your unit and then add one or two kernels with a dandy trickler? Has anyone done that?

 

[Jdne5b]

I wonder how practical it would be to under charge with your unit and then add one or two kernels with a dandy trickler? Has anyone done that?

I set the target weight .02 over my actual target (44.52). Adjust the slider correctly, and it's spot on (44.50) 98% of the time. The dandy never would drop 1 or 2 for me. I had to manually slide them off the spout with tweezers. Adam's is much faster, and I can even live with +/-1 kernel now even though it rarely happens.

 

[missed]

Sign me up for this preorder too

I have been working on it for quite some time now. It has turned out to be a significant challenge to not drop a kernel of powder and be light and stable enough on the scale whole assembly needs to be in the 50 gram range. The latest version should get buttoned up this weekend and put through its paces. I have been planning on putting a carousel that will hold 50 cases and have it auto fill for you single stagers. I will have mine above the Dillon 550.

 

[Mooster1223]

I remember reading that you might do a trickler upgrade to include different bushings to eliminate to frictional drag on the current units which require occasional lubrication. Is this true and going to happen in the near future? I've ordered my scale and would be willing to hold off on your trickler for a bit if required. Thanks

 

[stevenc23]

I wonder how practical it would be to under charge with your unit and then add one or two kernels with a dandy trickler? Has anyone done that?

That is exactly what I do and it works great with the powders I use (H4350 and Varget). I set it to .02 gn below my desired charge and 95% of time it is either what it is set to or .02 over which is my desired charge. Doesn't add much time. If it is short by .02gn I just add one kernel and dump the powder. I don't wait for the scale to read it as I know from experience that it will go up .02gn with all of the stick powders that I use.

 

[adamjmac]

I remember reading that you might do a trickler upgrade to include different bushings to eliminate to frictional drag on the current units which require occasional lubrication. Is this true and going to happen in the near future? I've ordered my scale and would be willing to hold off on your trickler for a bit if required. Thanks

The new trickler will not require lubrication and will be really nice. If you can wait 4 weeks then holding off would not be a bad idea.

 

[Mooster1223]

The new trickler will not require lubrication and will be really nice. If you can wait 4 weeks then holding off would not be a bad idea.

Thanks Adam. I'll do just that!

 

[Medic505]

I just finished up loading 200 rounds for a match next weekend. It took about half the time as before. I seat as I go and would have a charge waiting on me before I could get the previous bullet seated. Yes, I'm a happy camper!