Winchester brass....

[fguffey]

Took longer to type this than it took them to act after talking to them.

I hope it works out, I purchased a Winchester Model 70 chamber to 300 Win Mag with the ugliest chamber I have ever seen, Like you I called them I told, them the chamber was too large in diameter and too long from the shoulder to the bolt face and the chamber was gouged. They made arrangements for me to take the rifle to their warranty smith in the area. When I delivered the rifle I thought it would be a help if we discussed the problem with the rifle. He claimed Winchester had given him instructions on 'how to repair'. Winchester instructed him to hone, polish and or ream the chamber and I asked "How is it possible to reduce the length and or diameter of the chamber with a hone, reamer or polishing.

2 Months later I went to check on the rifle, the smith said they returned the rifle to Winchester, I had to ask 'why?', he said the chamber was to long and too large in diameter and had long gouges. It was about that time I asked did that happen when he honed the chamber or when he reamed the chamber, he said no, the chamber was like that when the rifle came in. Anyhow, it did not get better, they did sent the rifle back in a new box. I ask Winchester for a chamber that fit my dies or dies that would fit their chamber. That had to be 14 years ago, I dug the rifle out with ever intent to load 100 rounds and head for the range, I changed my mind when the bolt would not close on new, over the counter factory ammo, the bolt would not close minimum length/full length sized cases. I propped the rifle up in a corner. that was close to a year ago.

I understand Winchester got out to the rifle and ammo business in 1929, and then there was Browning, there had to be a reason he had his rifles made in another country.

F. Guffey

 

[Milo 2.0]

I hope it works out, I purchased a Winchester Model 70 chamber to 300 Win Mag with the ugliest chamber I have ever seen, Like you I called them I told, them the chamber was too large in diameter and too long from the shoulder to the bolt face and the chamber was gouged. They made arrangements for me to take the rifle to their warranty smith in the area. When I delivered the rifle I thought it would be a help if we discussed the problem with the rifle. He claimed Winchester had given him instructions on 'how to repair'. Winchester instructed him to hone, polish and or ream the chamber and I asked "How is it possible to reduce the length and or diameter of the chamber with a hone, reamer or polishing.

2 Months later I went to check on the rifle, the smith said they returned the rifle to Winchester, I had to ask 'why?', he said the chamber was to long and too large in diameter and had long gouges. It was about that time I asked did that happen when he honed the chamber or when he reamed the chamber, he said no, the chamber was like that when the rifle came in. Anyhow, it did not get better, they did sent the rifle back in a new box. I ask Winchester for a chamber that fit my dies or dies that would fit their chamber. That had to be 14 years ago, I dug the rifle out with ever intent to load 100 rounds and head for the range, I changed my mind when the bolt would not close on new, over the counter factory ammo, the bolt would not close minimum length/full length sized cases. I propped the rifle up in a corner. that was close to a year ago.

I understand Winchester got out to the rifle and ammo business in 1929, and then there was Browning, there had to be a reason he had his rifles made in another country.

F. Guffey

Just bump the shoulder back on the loaded cases, body die, or bushing die with guts removed all you need, want me to teach you how?

 

[fguffey]

Just bump the shoulder back on the loaded cases, body die, or bushing die with guts removed all you need, want me to teach you how?

If you were my neighbor

want me to teach you how?

I did not say I fixed/repaired the rifle, I did, I can not believe anyone would be so stupid as to shorten a case from the shoulder to the case head in an effort to chamber a round. I would not leave the shop before I determined the cause of the problem.

I could have called Winchester to ask how they tested the rifle but when dealing with them it was one lie after the other.

F. Guffey

 

[Rsadams]

Just an update guys... I took the Winchester brass back and after someone posted they did the same and picked up some sig brass I took a look at the sig brass and picked up 2 bags of it... Looks very nice , annealed shoulders , not beat up and in a clear bag so you can inspect it... It was actually a buck a bag cheaper also.. very nice looking brass for the price.. someone in this thread said they checked some and it was very nice and they went back and bought all the rest and altho I have not or do not know when I will get around to loading it I would say from looking at it it's very nice compared to the Winchester brand..

If your looking for some brass for hunting or shooting and can't do the Winchester like me and don't want to shoot your Lapua brass etc you may want to take a look at this I picked up 100 for about $45 and being able to inspect them before you buy was also great.. Cabela's has the .308 for like $22 a big of fifty..

 

[Rsadams]

I made the mistake of buying 250 pieces of WW 300wm brass, same lot, for a new build. It was cheap and ON SALE, so I figured I could cull 20% and still be okay.

The necks were a mess, but the expander mandrel cleaned up all but a couple of cases. There was an extra case in each bag, so I thought OKAY, that's great.

I got out the tubing mic and went to checking neck thickness. I could not believe what I was seeing. They were consistently the worst I had ever measured. The thin sides were .0110" - .0115" and the thick side was .0160-.0165". All I could say was " At least, they were consistently crappy".

I got rid of them, rather than wasting more time. Replaced them with some brass I'd never tried, Sig Sauer 300 wm, on advice from a fellow shooter. I bought 50 rds and rushed home to measure them. Then rushed back to purchase the rest of the lot number. Every case neck measured .014" +/- .0005" at 4 points. I went from worst lot of WW to some of the best lot of brass I've ever seen.

It remains to be seen how this brass will hold up, as the build is 6 weeks out. I don't know how it will measure out from lot to lot and some of the necks had slight dings as it's bagged similar to the WW. It looked like Lapua, as far as annealing. Overall quality seems to be far superior to WW junk at about same price.

I did the same.. in appearance there's no comparison between the two.. I like you have not loaded any of it yet , it may be the worst brass ever but for the price it sure looks nice.. The clear bag they put it in let's you inspect it first I like that.. From the looks of it we will just have to see how long the pockets stay tight I guess.. I don't see anything else I was shocked at how nice it was compared to the Winchester...

 

[gerry taylor]

SEND THOSE PICS TO WINCHESTER !!!

Just bought 300 , win 22-250 brass, [ in red bag ] only had one that was real short and after turning , trimming etc. , it was all good except for approx 2.5 grain spread. For less than half what I pay for Lapau, they'll shoot good.

 

[Rsadams]

Just bought 300 , win 22-250 brass, [ in red bag ] only had one that was real short and after turning , trimming etc. , it was all good except for approx 2.5 grain spread. For less than half what I pay for Lapau, they'll shoot good.

Ohh ya they will I am sure.. my bag was just not what I am looking for.. the sig brass I have to say is great looking and for the same price... Not alot of calibers available but the two bags I picked up in .308 look fabulous of course we will see could be the worst brass ever... Just because they are great looking doesn't mean they will be great shooters.. but at least they seems to have better QC , annealed shoulders and no dents to speak of... We will see I guess when the time comes this winter...

 

[akajiggs]

This is a follow up on my last post.The Winchester brass may suck,but the people that work for them are really good people.I received a check in the mail today for the brass that I had sent back to them.They paid enough that I can buy another bag and have a few $ left.
A personal letter came with the brass and they assured me that they,complaint dept and qc were looking into the problem.
I hope they work it out for the future.
Good shooting guys
Jim

 

[ronsatspokane]

Resurrecting an old thread. Just bought my first batch of Winchester brass. 100 rounds of 300 WSM. Had been using Hornady since Lapua does not make this brass. As others have reported, out of round necks that look like they'd been trimmed to length with a hatchet and dents in some necks and shoulders. It's when I went to turn the necks that I got a real appreciation for how bad this brass is. With the turning tool set the same as it was when I turned the Hornady brass (which was to take about 1 thou off and clean it up), with the Winchester brass the tool would sometimes only touch 1/2 to 2/3 of the neck. Probably 35 percent were this bad but every single piece had low spots that were not touched by the turning tool (a K&M for reference). The difference in neck wall thickness was in the range of 2-3 thousands. You'd need to remove a lot of brass to clean these things up. I'm going to shoot it without removing more brass and hope that the brass will flow a bit and become more consistent after a few firings. Still... Wish Lapua would extend their brass offerings.

 

[Catfur]

Still... Wish Lapua would extend their brass offerings.

Or Peterson, or Alpha or ADG (or RWS).

 

[ronsatspokane]

Or Peterson, or Alpha or ADG (or RWS).

Peterson and Alpha do not make it. ADG is priced at the Lapua level. I would pay the price for Lapua but I have no experience with ADG. Nosler is the other choice but they value their product well above where I value it.

 

[Catfur]

Peterson and Alpha do not make it. ADG is priced at the Lapua level. I would pay the price for Lapua but I have no experience with ADG. Nosler is the other choice but they value their product well above where I value it.

They do not, they make 6.5 and 7 SAUM, which can be reformed to 30 SAUM, but is too short to make a WSM case.

 

[AJC]

Winchester brass, you buy it knowing that your buying a mediocre product. You have to accept the reality that up to 10% of the brass will be throwaways. Not exactly what any of us want but if you want a product that is top notch you will pay twice the price for Lapua.

It's unfortunate but American brass is mediocre, that includes the other brands, including Hornady and Remington. It's frustrating because made in America is supposed to stand for quality.

I agree and disagree with this statement premium American brass is wonderful from Alpha and Peterson but the regular Remington Winchester Hornady is not as good. I don't think it's really fair to compare premium brass the mid-grade brass and expect the same quality.

 

[hoz53]

Resurrecting an old thread. Just bought my first batch of Winchester brass. 100 rounds of 300 WSM. Had been using Hornady since Lapua does not make this brass. As others have reported, out of round necks that look like they'd been trimmed to length with a hatchet and dents in some necks and shoulders. It's when I went to turn the necks that I got a real appreciation for how bad this brass is. With the turning tool set the same as it was when I turned the Hornady brass (which was to take about 1 thou off and clean it up), with the Winchester brass the tool would sometimes only touch 1/2 to 2/3 of the neck. Probably 35 percent were this bad but every single piece had low spots that were not touched by the turning tool (a K&M for reference). The difference in neck wall thickness was in the range of 2-3 thousands. You'd need to remove a lot of brass to clean these things up. I'm going to shoot it without removing more brass and hope that the brass will flow a bit and become more consistent after a few firings. Still... Wish Lapua would extend their brass offerings.

didnt realize this thread was 3 years old till i saw posts by the Guffer. Yep Mr FGuffey himself. Alltime headapace Guru.--- Id sure like to get some of that new 308 brass for 375/1000 these days. I have some older Rem and win brass that seems pretty good. Just depends what Im using the brass for but for best accuracy Id be using one of the premium names. Buying for some milsurp rifles with 80 year old used original barrels
mabie not

 

[ronsatspokane]

didnt realize this thread was 3 years old till i saw posts by the Guffer. Yep Mr FGuffey himself. Alltime headapace Guru.--- Id sure like to get some of that new 308 brass for 375/1000 these days. I have some older Rem and win brass that seems pretty good. Just depends what Im using the brass for but for best accuracy Id be using one of the premium names. Buying for some milsurp rifles with 80 year old used original barrels
mabie not

Yeah, I found it in a search. Thought I'd report current findings. I don't think I've encountered brass as bad as this Winchester. But then I've been spoiled with Lapua for 308, 6 BRA, 243 and 6.5 Creedmoor. Even Hornady is much better, closer to Lapua than Winchester. If it were for something like a 30-30 who cares but for something that your hoping to get some precision out of, keep looking.

 

[hoz53]

Yeah, I found it in a search. Thought I'd report current findings. I don't think I've encountered brass as bad as this Winchester. But then I've been spoiled with Lapua for 308, 6 BRA, 243 and 6.5 Creedmoor. Even Hornady is much better, closer to Lapua than Winchester. If it were for something like a 30-30 who cares but for something that your hoping to get some precision out of, keep looking.

yep for sure- looking at my lapua there is alot of difference between the rest. i need somemore

 

[Rsadams]

Wow 3 years since I posted this... I still haven't loaded the Sig brass but I am sure glad I bought it back then... I guess I need to shoot my .308 this year...