Why is AR Comp the Red Headed Step Child?

[Dgd6mm]

So if one is looking for another powder to use in a .223 trainer for banging steel out to 700-800 yards this would be a good powder to try?

 

[dmoran]

I remember when Hodgens said 8208 was the least temp. sensitive, now it isn't. Maybe you had better test for yourself ....... jim

Some years back I tested 8208 for temperature sensitivity two different times from 6Dasher's. Both times it resulted to be the least sensitive of all the powders I tested that included H4895 and Varget. As to AR Comp, while I have not tested it myself, I put strong credit in my sources who have !.!.!

 

[urbanrifleman]

8208 I have tested for temperature sensitivity two different times from 6Dasher's. Both times it resulted to be the least sensitive of all the powders I tested that included H4895 and Varget. As to AR Comp, while I have not tested it myself, I do put strong credit in my sources who have !.!.!

Good to know.

I'm thinking of just testing them myself. It's a super easy test to do. Make up 10 rounds and put 5 in a cooler over ice and 5 in another cooler with a hot pack. Then shoot them over a chronograph. Some of the tests I've seen are very eye opening.

I thought it was all hype, I admit it!!! But it's not hype at all. Stable powders will stay in tune and unstable ones can change radically.

 

[urbanrifleman]

So if one is looking for another powder to use in a .223 trainer for banging steel out to 700-800 yards this would be a good powder to try?

Yes.

 

[urbanrifleman]

If Alliant would do another one that's r15 speed that would be money. And I bet the military would be all over that.

 

[urbanrifleman]

Lots of people are shooting 8208 with the 80 grain bullets in the 6bra. I would think Arcomp would be ideal for that

 

[dmoran]

If Alliant would do another one that's r15 speed that would be money. And I bet the military would be all over that.

In my 6Dasher's, RL-16 is a little slower burning (not by much), and the least temperature sensitive powder I've ever used.
In one of my barrels it is the most accurate hands down, with strong results in 2 other barrels that I have used it in.

 

[urbanrifleman]

In my 6Dasher's, RL-16 is a little slower burning (not by much), and the least temperature sensitive powder I've ever used.
In one of my barrels it is the most accurate hands down, with strong results in 2 other barrels that I have used it in.

Does the Dasher hold more powder than the 6bra?

 

[dmoran]

Does the Dasher hold more powder than the 6bra?

A couple grains more then a 6BRA (dependent on Free-bore).
It's .100" longer then a 6BR, with a 40° shoulder, that typically will hold around 3-grains more powder.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Youd figure they would make some of this temp insensitive powder in the 133 speed for the short range crowd that im sure buys more powder than other disciplines

 

[johara1]

Youd figure they would make some of this temp insensitive powder in the 133 speed for the short range crowd that im sure buys more powder than other disciplines

Dusty, I don't think that is true anymore, all gray hair and no young guys to take over. Look at York, Pa. .... jim

 

[dmoran]

Youd figure they would make some of this temp insensitive powder in the 133 speed for the short range crowd that im sure buys more powder than other disciplines

Do to case capacity, I doubt that to be true, over other disciplines.
Take F-Class for instance; more shooters nation wide and larger case capacity cartridges being used.
But do agree, hardly ever anything new for fast burning powders in the 133 burn rate.

 

[Alliant Reloading]

If Alliant would do another one that's r15 speed that would be money. And I bet the military would be all over that.

Truth be told, I had developed AR-Comp(TM) with Bofors for the US Army, for use in the M118LR back in 2009. We had been getting some static about Reloder(R) 15 temp response, but the Army personnel we were briefing were not particularly interested in changing from Reloder 15, so we introduced it to the canister market.
Below is some temp response data in a hot 5.56 load. In this test, with this lot of IMR 8208XBR it went up a little at hot. This Hodgdon powder is generally pretty temp stable in my experience though. As others have said, AR-Comp is pretty darn temp stable in all the loads I have tested it in. We use a boatload of it here at Federal, and we changed it to our primary propellant in both the 168gr and 175gr Gold Medal Match 308 Win loads.
Please give it a try. I believe you will like it.
Shoot well,
Paul

 

[urbanrifleman]

You would think that a temp stable r15 would make more money as a military contract powder than a recreational powder. But I don't know.

Alliant powders are not dirty. The Bofors powders have decoppering agents.

 

[urbanrifleman]

Truth be told, I had developed AR-Comp(TM) with Bofors for the US Army, for use in the M118LR back in 2009. We had been getting some static about Reloder(R) 15 temp response, but the Army personnel we were briefing were not particularly interested in changing from Reloder 15, so we introduced it to the canister market.
Below is some temp response data in a hot 5.56 load. In this test, with this lot of IMR 8208XBR it went up a little at hot. This Hodgdon powder is generally pretty temp stable in my experience though. As others have said, AR-Comp is pretty darn temp stable in all the loads I have tested it in. We use a boatload of it here at Federal, and we changed it to our primary propellant in both the 168gr and 175gr Gold Medal Match 308 Win loads.
Please give it a try. I believe you will like it.
Shoot well,
Paul

View attachment 1124732

Oh snap.

That explains a lot.

Do you have any more powder graphs for other powders?

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Do to case capacity, I doubt that to be true, over other disciplines.
Take F-Class for instance; more shooters nation wide and larger case capacity cartridges being used.
But do agree, hardly ever anything new for fast burning powders in the 133 burn rate.

I just go by bullet numbers. 1000 ppc bullets burn more than 500 284 cases. The f-class guys dont shoot half as many bullets a year as a normal ppc shooter- and the tuner twisters shoot even more than that

 

[Dusty Stevens]

So according to that graph, ar comp has pretty much the same velocity at -25 as it does at +160? Thats pretty wild.

 

[GSS]

Truth be told, I had developed AR-Comp(TM) with Bofors for the US Army, for use in the M118LR back in 2009. We had been getting some static about Reloder(R) 15 temp response, but the Army personnel we were briefing were not particularly interested in changing from Reloder 15, so we introduced it to the canister market.
Below is some temp response data in a hot 5.56 load. In this test, with this lot of IMR 8208XBR it went up a little at hot. This Hodgdon powder is generally pretty temp stable in my experience though. As others have said, AR-Comp is pretty darn temp stable in all the loads I have tested it in. We use a boatload of it here at Federal, and we changed it to our primary propellant in both the 168gr and 175gr Gold Medal Match 308 Win loads.
Please give it a try. I believe you will like it.
Shoot well,
Paul

View attachment 1124732

Very Interesting Paul, Huge Thanks for sharing!

I have used nothing but AR Comp in my last two 20" Service rifle barrels. ( was previously RL15 fan for 8 - 10 barrels before )
It could be coincidence and pure luck (lot to lot stainless steel hardness variations?) but I am getting reduced throat erosion per 1000 rounds out of each one of these two barrels that have seen nothing but AR Comp.

One of them is a button rifled White Oar Armament Wilson 1x7 twist
The other is a cut rifled Bartlein 5R 1x7 twist

It also seems the AR Comp burns cooler than RL15 did.
This is judged by how hot the barrel is to the touch when practicing 200 yard sitting and 300 yard prone rapid strings.

Do you know if it is a fact that AR Comp burns cooler and may decrease throat erosion because of that trait?

Other things i love about AR Comp is;
Meters great on a progressive press, (as well or better than RL15)
Great groups and the same velocities as RL 15 with around a grain reduction in powder charge.

Thanks again for posting the above Info!
George S.

 

[Pawnee Bill]

With a burn rate right near IMR 8208 and H4895 and supposedly the LEAST temperature sensitive powder on the market, no one on this board will touch the stuff.

I just keep wondering why.

I just discovered AR Comp after viewing a Youtube clip. I like it! I shoot it in 223 Rem and 6mm Rem with great results!

 

[urbanrifleman]

So according to that graph, ar comp has pretty much the same velocity at -25 as it does at +160? Thats pretty wild.

Exactly.