What's your platform?

[Dusty Stevens]

Sometimes I shoot f open with an ftr bipod just to remind me how archaic it is. Cavemen.

A real man would use a real bipod like a harris. Those ski rigs that slide on the doormats is pretty much cheating

 

[CT10ring]

A real man would use a real bipod like a harris. Those ski rigs that slide on the doormats is pretty much cheating

I use a Harris & hafta "load" hard it but a good bipod. esp for the $. notched legs r best.

 

[Kurz]

F Open shooters don't understand us either. You have to be a little bit of a masochist to compete with a .308.

I'm not so sure...

I and thousands of others shot Palma for many years before F-Class even was a glimmer of an idea in Farquharson's mind. The gold standard was the .308 Win. with 155s and there were some darn fine shooters using this ammunition in their long barreled rifles, slung up with open sights.

 

[spclark]

You have to be a little bit of a masochist to compete with a .308. By in large, F-TR shooters are the best guys and gals on earth. That said, those Open shooters are pretty good cats too.

Open F or open sights??

You folks using mechanical supports ought to try it with a sling once in awhile.

Losing the optics'll make your target bigger... just sayin'.

The gold standard was the .308 Win. with 155s and there were some darn fine shooters using this ammunition in their long barreled rifles, slung up with open sights.

You lookin' over my shoulder (while I was typing my post above) or what?

 

[ebb]

CT10ring Ive been a carpenter for over 40 years. Asking if I was a painter may be the meanest thing anyone has ever said to me.

 

[Medic505]

A real man would use a real bipod like a harris. Those ski rigs that slide on the doormats is pretty much cheating

I guess a "real man" would shoot benchrest off sandbags instead of a $2000 80 pound joystick front rest too huh.

 

[pirate ammo]

CT10ring Ive been a carpenter for over 40 years. Asking if I was a painter may be the meanest thing anyone has ever said to me.

Darn Ebb, I've had to use scaffolding to pull heads from engines.

 

[Evan]

Quote from Sierra Reloading Manual- Sixth Edition regarding the 308 Winchester-

“It probably is the most inherently accurate 30 caliber commercial cartridge ever produced.”

Can you understand that?

Nope . Cause the 308 is just a military "un-improved" version of the 300 Savage that reduced the shoulder angle and increased the capacity to get more speed, creating an inherently less accurate design. A well built 300 Savage is just better at being accurate.

 

[Medic505]

Losing the optics'll make your target bigger... just sayin'.

Bigger? With a X ring the size of a basketball, how much bigger does it need to be?

 

[Dgd6mm]

3/4" decking.

 

[Bugs]

Open F or open sights??

You folks using mechanical supports ought to try it with a sling once in awhile.

Losing the optics'll make your target bigger... just sayin'.



You lookin' over my shoulder (while I was typing my post above) or what?

Good point. . . . I enjoy long range benchrest immensely but about once a year I dig out my old O3A3 and shoot prone or offhand. It's a whole 'nother world.

 

[Evan]

Oh yeah the mighty .30-06! .308 performance with .300 win mag recoil. A shooters dream!

Savage made rifle rounds? I thought they were famous for confusing action lengths, ugly barrel nuts, and ridiculous rifle nomenclature??

...please don’t ban me. Lol

Haha. Gather round kiddies and let me tell you about the glory days when a fellah named Newton (not the physicist, although apparently fellahs named Newton are rather smart ) was designing some of the greatest cartridges in history. It was 1920, just 5 years after his most successful divine inspiration hit the world: the 250-3000. The original short action hotrod! He decides to neck it up to a 30 caliber and the 300 Savage is born.

Fast forward and condensing a longer story: the military is convinced that the modern case design of the 300 Savage with its too sharp 30degree shoulder and "minimal taper" is just going to be a reliability nightmare. It looks nothing like the comfortable and proven designs of the 1800s! They also decide that it's too compact and too slow to be effective. I mean human targets are so much tougher than elk and bear, so you need more power than such a puny little case can deliver. They want it to be longer, with more taper, and a shallower shoulder angle so that it looks more like what they're used to. They also want it to go about 150fps faster while burning 10grns more powder to do so to extend the "effective range" another 100 yards. What efficiency! That's clearly a great design change! And this is how the oversized turd named 308 Winchester was forced into existence.

To be clear: this is a colorful retelling of the "fact"s that somewhat glosses over many things that happened and influenced those decisions. I think it captures the military spirit accurately though when they go about choosing an equipment "upgrade"

 

[JimT]

Haha. Gather round kiddies and let me tell you about the glory days when a fellah named Newton (not the physicist, although apparently fellahs named Newton are rather smart ) was designing some of the greatest cartridges in history. It was 1920, just 5 years after his most successful divine inspiration hit the world: the 250-3000. The original short action hotrod! He decides to neck it up to a 30 caliber and the 300 Savage is born.

Fast forward and condensing a longer story: the military is convinced that the modern case design of the 300 Savage with its too sharp 30degree shoulder and "minimal taper" is just going to be a reliability nightmare. It looks nothing like the comfortable and proven designs of the 1800s! They also decide that it's too compact and too slow to be effective. I mean human targets are so much tougher than elk and bear, so you need more power than such a puny little case can deliver. They want it to be longer, with more taper, and a shallower shoulder angle so that it looks more like what they're used to. They also want it to go about 150fps faster while burning 10grns more powder to do so to extend the "effective range" another 100 yards. What efficiency! That's clearly a great design change! And this is how the oversized turd named 308 Winchester was forced into existence.

To be clear: this is a colorful retelling of the "fact"s that somewhat glosses over many things that happened and influenced those decisions. I think it captures the military spirit accurately though when they go about choosing an equipment "upgrade"

So I take it you were involved with the development of the 308??? I sure would like to read the actual authoritative material you rely on for your “story.”

BTW, both Barnes and Ackley attribute the development of the 300 Salvage to the Salvage Arms Company for use in the lever action Model 99.

Also, I have it on good authority that Cam ain’t smart.

 

[Evan]

So I take it you were involved with the development of the 308??? I sure would like to read the actual authoritative material you rely on for your “story.”

BTW, both Barnes and Ackley attribute the development of the 300 Salvage to the Salvage Arms Company for use in the lever action Model 99.

Also, I have it on good authority that Cam ain’t smart.

I'm having trouble discerning if you are actually being hostile or not. I'm merely jesting a little and like to remind folks that the 308 was not the first or best of it's kind. It was only what the military adopted almost 70 years ago. I have my grandpa's old Mauser he had built and chambered in 300 savage sometime in the 50s after the war. It was his favorite gun and it has killed deer, elk, bear, and mountain lions. It used to shoot consistently in the 3s with 155s until I ran a few thousand of them down the tube to targets with it after I inherited it from him. It shot really well and it should be no surprise given how well everything from a 30BR up to 308 shoot with quality components.

I will try to find the books I read that discussed the testing and history around this period of time and report back with the titles, but it is well known that the US military ran testing on the 300 savage in the late 40s/early 50s, wanted the stuff I mentioned, and so Winchester stepped up to the plate with the 308 design very soon after.

 

[300_whisper]

I'm having trouble discerning if you are actually being hostile or not. I'm merely jesting a little and like to remind folks that the 308 was not the first or best of it's kind. It was only what the military adopted almost 70 years ago. I have my grandpa's old Mauser he had built and chambered in 300 savage sometime in the 50s after the war. It was his favorite gun and it has killed deer, elk, bear, and mountain lions. It used to shoot consistently in the 3s with 155s until I ran a few thousand of them down the tube to targets with it after I inherited it from him. It shot really well and it should be no surprise given how well everything from a 30BR up to 308 shoot with quality components.

I will try to find the books I read that discussed the testing and history around this period of time and report back with the titles, but it is well known that the US military ran testing on the 300 savage in the late 40s/early 50s, wanted the stuff I mentioned, and so Winchester stepped up to the plate with the 308 design very soon after.

I know what you mean. Informative and funny.

But hey no clowning around on the internet or the thought police will take you away.

 

[ebb]

If the heads were from one of your sea barges I totally get it. I have a friend that is a machinist and he told me he was bringing a set of pistons in from the port that needed the ring grooves made bigger cause the original rings weren't made any more. Eight of these pistons filled the back of his chevy P/U. They were bigger than a 5 gallon bucket.

 

[CT10ring]

CT10ring Ive been a carpenter for over 40 years. Asking if I was a painter may be the meanest thing anyone has ever said to me.

ah, sorry. I like both pursuits. But I'm odd.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

If the heads were from one of your sea barges I totally get it. I have a friend that is a machinist and he told me he was bringing a set of pistons in from the port that needed the ring grooves made bigger cause the original rings weren't made any more. Eight of these pistons filled the back of his chevy P/U. They were bigger than a 5 gallon bucket.

When i worked for GE i had to go work on a few big boats while underway. Only difference is those piston engines wouldnt cut it, they use gas turbines now if they need power. The old reciprocating engines are so 1800’s!! Ge has a few recip engine shops and ive seen some of those pistons you speak of. They have lathes that you ride in a chair with the carriage. They take off chips as big as your arm. Theres some big stuff out there

 

[hpshooter]

"Darn Ebb, I've had to use scaffolding to pull heads from engines."

Along with a bridge or gantry crane in some cases I'd bet.

 

[pirate ammo]

Ge has a few recip engine shops and ive seen some of those pistons you speak of

GE still making the EMD, they just went to different levels for carbon discharge. A 20 cylinder 645 E2 coupled to a Falk gearbox will put out about 5,000 HP, and now you have 2 of these.
Pull anything you want across the world.