What happened to the secondary market?

[Clancy]

All the guys I hang out with are making more money than they ever have, but most of their extra funds are going to full customs, optics, suppressors, etc. We are all on the same page of aside from family heirlooms, you’re better off having a few very high end items vs a lot of mediocre.

To add to what Bradley said…. People are “selling” old and well used items at the new and gently used prices. I see a ton of that.

 

[Jonnyofalltrades]

Possibly just a sign of the times?

I was talking with a 21 year old "enthusiast" this week. Had never heard of Jack O'Connor, Elmer Keith, or Tony Boyer.
He felt that anything that wasn't self-loading was "archaic".
After probing deeper into what had formed his tastes, we both realized that it was from growing up playing video games.

I think we both came away from the conversation a bit disturbed.

 

[Coyotefurharvester]

I keep hearing the gun market is soft, I keep bidding on 22RF single shot bolt guns. They sell above my pay grade.

 

[tmwinds]

Agreed.
It is funny/not funny how many people voted for Trump with his promise to trim government. And now, that he has started, everybody is howling that their tit on the welfare sow is drying up.

There is a difference between trimming waste and mindless butchery.

 

[JB10]

I just quite shooting due to components. I'd buy a few more guns, but the prices of things are higher than I'd like to pay. I bought a savage axis in 223 from Bass Pro in 2019, i think. Was $295 with a scope. I wanted just a beater rifle. Now, they are for sale for just under $500. I want a few more guns, but they take large rifle primers. You are starting to see them tricking in very slow, but it has made me decide to just wait and shoot my small rifle primered stuff instead

 

[Knotwild]

It takes $1.34 to buy what $1.00 bought in 2015 or $1.84 to buy what $1.00 bought in 2000. Our monetary system is built on debt, but it’s broken because interest rates are too low for people to make money by parking it in a savings account and thus cool excessive and wasteful spending.

Now the world runs on “more,more, more, got to have more”. It’s like having a pile of sand in your yard, so you get more, and you didn’t win, because even though you have more - it’s worth less.

And I am not talking about primers, powder, and brass. That is bound to get worse as everybody is trying to build there defense stores.

 

[Sechrist2015]

As a young man (33) in the shooting sports hobby, I hate autoloaders. So there may still be some hope on that front. But I am also still buying bolt guns and accessories. Right now I am mainly buying barrels and optics unless a good deal on complete gun comes available. It's not due to a funding issue, it's due to the lack of purpose built guns for my exact hobby. I shoot cast lead short range so unless something pops up in my circles for sale, I usually won't be a buyer on a complete gun in the secondary market without a screaming good deal.

Here in lies the problem, while there are younger shooters that would love to buy a quality rifle, many of those rifles are expensive. They are rightly expensive, but there are many questions these shooters may not have the answers to as well. Is this barrel still good, or will I be replacing it immediately? Are they just selling this rifle because it doesn't shoot like they want? Where can I find the components to shoot this rifle like it should be shot? I say this because I have been in this situation, and it's not a comfortable position to be in when you're buying. Offer to help these young guys get started if they seem unsure. That alone goes a long way. If it hadn't been for a few old timers sharing their experience, I would have gave this up and went back to fishing by now.

On a side note, I did end up with a complete Kelbly built Cub pistol in 6PPC with a spare barrel. Turn-key set up for considerably less than it was to build. While there is no jacketed competitions for Benchrest pistols, it will be quite fun with lead bullets.

 

[hogpatrol]

My bud at the gun store says people buy a gun on Monday, then are back the following week taking half of what they paid. Their store is loaded with 700s and Savage bolt actions that are collecting dust, even at market prices. Everything else has slowed down too. Been in this sport since the '60s and I see it as just another part of an historical cycle. Uncertainty about the economy is one of the main drivers, demographics another.

 

[pintopete]

Possibly just a sign of the times?

I was talking with a 21 year old "enthusiast" this week. Had never heard of Jack O'Connor, Elmer Keith, or Tony Boyer.
He felt that anything that wasn't self-loading was "archaic".
After probing deeper into what had formed his tastes, we both realized that it was from growing up playing video games.

I think we both came away from the conversation a bit disturbed.

Whereas a lot of us grew up walking fields and woods, dreaming of more time outdoors, with money to buy nicer or larger caliber hunting rifle. We spent an enormous amount of time as youths/teens with 22 RF, and walked a lot.

 

[SBS]

Costs of everything has soared in the last few years and the firearms sector is no exception. Buyers have been embracing the continual rise in cost and expect it to continue. Therefore it seems okay to pay more because soon it will be worth more. However, there is an end to this cycle as the average consumer can't afford to pay more for necessities and have the money to pay for jacked up prices on his hobbies also. In times of high inflation, income never keeps up with prices and peoples' necessities come first. We have all seen the sky high prices at gun shows the last few years. About the only items that attract buyers is high quality collectibles that will always be worth more over time due to their scarcity. These will still be bought by those who have deep enough pockets and not on a budget. It appears that we cannot expect most of our firearms to be worth more on a continual basis, at least for now. I think users will continue to buy what they want, will use and can afford. There will be a lot less speculation buying, which keeps more products on the market instead of being bought up and held by speculators. More products on the market will eventually mean lower prices, given the rule of supply and demand. Added to this is the firearms industry who has found out that sales are boosted by continually offering new products (just variations a lot of the time), and this has cut into the demand and sales of used firearms. Lots of things going on in the firearms world.

 

[Kracken McGraw]

My bud at the gun store says people buy a gun on Monday, then are back the following week taking half of what they paid. Their store is loaded with 700s and Savage bolt actions that are collecting dust, even at market prices. Everything else has slowed down too. Been in this sport since the '60s and I see it as just another part of an historical cycle. Uncertainty about the economy is one of the main drivers, demographics another.

What was the most common reason for bringing the guns back the next week to resale?

 

[Downeast]

This is what happens when your currency loses value. The items overall haven't changed much over time. It's the fact that it takes more "dollars" to purchase them. Our paper money is getting worthless. Check out the price of an ounce of gold over the years. It takes more and more dollars to purchase the same ounce of gold.

 

[hogpatrol]

What was the most common reason for bringing the guns back the next week to resale?

Needed the money, but I'm thinking they may have been purchased with a credit card and now they have cash in hand.

 

[wi50]

I've purged a lot of stuff from my gun room this winter. I guess I just looked at what I enjoy shooting, traveling, the type of events and I looked at all the stuff I bought that was a deal when I bought it. I managed to turn a small profit on about 80-90% of what I sold. Basically not much but I didn't come out behind. But I usually buy something because it's a "deal". So for me, I was busy, selling, packing and dealing with people, and I simply turned around and bought back a few things I wanted that were higher dollar that I normally wouldn't have bought. Just selling stuff to upgrade stuff and have less overall. And I've still got a pile of stuff I should advertise. I will say in selling gold box laupa brass, that'll really bring out the hate and nasty messages from people here who missed out.... example is dealing with phone calls, or messages on something and not getting an ad updated for a bit and these boys get pouty. So the list of people to not sell to grew a little

 

[jackieschmidt]

There is a difference between trimming waste and mindless butchery.

Every election, Candidates promise to get a hold on spending, find the waste, uncover corruption, and make the Government more efficient.

Then someone actually decides to do it and everybody says…..”hey, we didn’t actually think you would do it”!

 

[NZ_Fclass]

The BIG increases down here have been with 303's. Over the last few years, No4 LE's have been as high as $$NZ1600 for a reasonable one. Last weekend, a club member paid $NZ 2400 for a mint (really mint, possibly unused ) "Fulton's regulated" No 4. The Poms will know about that - built by Fulton's of Bisley as a target rifle from selected parts and "tuned" with a different bolt head and pressure felt pads under the woodwork etc. I have one purchased 8 years ago - for a quarter of the price, albeit, not quite the condition, but not far off. P14's are also well in demand - if they haven't been butchered into sporting guns. Having said all that...all rifle sales are poor since our wonderful government introduced registration. Buying from a dealer "triggers" the need to register all your firearms, as does buying a "registered" gun. Otherwise, there's a 4 year grace period before registration is compulsory. With a belief that registration will be cancelled by some miracle, many shooters are delaying purchases. I was caught out by having to renew my licence. C'est la vie, as they say in parts of Canada.

 

[rockhound78]

Had a gun show last weekend. Talked to the people that do the background checks and they said people were buying, but only if it was inexpensive (say $500 or less), otherwise, they just sat on tables.

 

[Fire Dog]

The BIG increases down here have been with 303's. Over the last few years, No4 LE's have been as high as $$NZ1600 for a reasonable one. Last weekend, a club member paid $NZ 2400 for a mint (really mint, possibly unused ) "Fulton's regulated" No 4. The Poms will know about that - built by Fulton's of Bisley as a target rifle from selected parts and "tuned" with a different bolt head and pressure felt pads under the woodwork etc. I have one purchased 8 years ago - for a quarter of the price, albeit, not quite the condition, but not far off. P14's are also well in demand - if they haven't been butchered into sporting guns. Having said all that...all rifle sales are poor since our wonderful government introduced registration. Buying from a dealer "triggers" the need to register all your firearms, as does buying a "registered" gun. Otherwise, there's a 4 year grace period before registration is compulsory. With a belief that registration will be cancelled by some miracle, many shooters are delaying purchases. I was caught out by having to renew my licence. C'est la vie, as they say in parts of Canada.

I can remember the days when Jungle Carbines were retailing for $35-40, Argentine Mausers still in the cosmoline filled box of 5 were $28-35 {$35 for one that had been cleaned..} 303’s were almost unwanted at $30 and a Carcano was available from Shot Gun News “with the Spaghetti stock…HA Ha} for $18…
We all know how that turned out to be a long range sniper rifle…. I guess Mr T was lucky that one wasn’t used on him..
At least NZ is still straight forward about allowing it’s citizens to have suppressers and semi-autos… Unlike your neighbour’s across the ditch… {:~/

 

[dryhumor]

Recession is coming… yet another reason to hunker down even further.

On the upside, ditching whiskey, smokes, snacks, impulse buys does leave more cash for shooting sports.

Well, I may have gone a bit far in the ditching whiskey part… A $100 bottle does seem to last a good while.

 

[Strap]

If you take the same used Rem 700 that was sitting on the table in 2020 and was (not selling) at $750 and then say in 2025 it's worth $1200, then I would say that's the problem.

It was only worth $450 in 2020. It's still only worth $450 in 2025.

People are not making 150 percent more money in five years.

I was buying brand new Remington 700 actions for $315 in 2018 and now they’re almost $600… for the same turd.