Ultimate coyote round.

[fredo]

That 55 B-tip from a .22-250AI is a proven coyote schwacker! I know a couple of 'old school' killers who shoot that exact combo, but they're runnin' right @ 4100. Definitely hitting the 'sweet spot' for case capacity, bullet weight, b.c. & optimal point blank range. And most importantly, that 55 B-tip flat throttles a coyote into the dirt. One friend cut his down 22" (to use a suppressor) and is still netting 3850 from the 55B-tip, with a change in powder...

Will be a tall order to beat that 4150fps minimum limit with a 60 JLK, but should be doable. Hoping that the added b.c. of the JLK + another ~8 grs of capacity will manifest itself & light the chrono up! That 300+ yd range is where the rubber will meet the road, as that's where the fast twist & heavy boolits really begin to walk away. Only way to catch up, is to start off, faster. ALOT faster! Ballistic coefficient is the gift that keeps on giving...

 

[AckleymanII]

I am getting 4150 with 55 grain ballistic tips out of my 26" 12 twist 22-250 AI. Been my main coyote rifle for over 10 years and probably will be for the next 50!

This has been my favorite coyote combo for many years, idiot proof case and load. I had the extra barrel laying around and wanted to try something different. I shot a lot of coyotes with the 60g Berger in a 12T at 3700 with 37g of Win 760, and this load blows massive holes in a coyote. I was hoping to shoot the 55's faster than the 22/250 AI, but could not do it, blew a lot of primers with Varget which has a wicked evil pressure spike. I believe that the 22/243 AI is better suited for 65g+ bullets and slow burning powders.

I had some original JLKs that were a 65g and they would not stabilize in a 12T, much to my disappointment in 22/250 AI leaning on the load hard.

 

[daniel brothers]

when I think of the Ultimate Coyote caliber setup... I can only think of one thing.... BC. How far will that bullet fly straight and level with a side wind. The Ultimate has to be something that is as close to a laser as possible. But that is ONLY if your thinking longer ranges than the mid range of 400 yds and less... then those calibers would not and could not be considered Ultimate calibers setups. It doesn't take much to be a 400 yd or less killer.

ONLY a caliber setup that has the LEAST DROP.... and the LEAST WIND DRIFT.... could be considered the Ultimate One.

Every time someone comes up with a super loaded BC round, I install their data into Vortex's BC Calculator and see what it will produce with a 300 yd zero... 10 mph wind @ 3 o'clock. Most do not compare well with a 20 cal 55 gr Berger.... or the 22 cal w/ 80 gr amax or 90 gr Berger bullets.

I'm ONLY making this statement out of curiosity because I would like to build another caliber rifle for long range coyotes, but I can't get my head past a high speed 22 cal bullet.

Most setups compare okay when only done at 400 yds... but I only look at 600... 800... and 1000 yds. Especially the 600-800 yd range, because most coyotes hang up there. You can dial the drop, but reading the wind is ALWAYS the issue... and when a coyote is only pausing now and then at those ranges as it's leaving... then there is little time to take wind readings... so only a quick educated guess is available. You are at the mercy of that guess... so... the Best and Ultimate Caliber is one that drops the least... and drifts the least... everything else has a slight handicap built into it from the start.

We all know that there are a lot of great setups for mid range, but they cannot be considered Ultimate.

I'm open to suggestions.

 

[AckleymanII]

Dan, I think that the only way for you to improve on your 22/243 AI is to go to a 22/6 Rem AI, and it will shoot the 80g at 3600 and only neck size where the 22/243 AI is probably pushing pretty hard on the throttle at 3550. I have a friend in Colorado that is shooting the 22/6 AI with the 80's, and the 80's at 3600 is ho hum in velocity, super accurate, easy on brass.

 

[daniel brothers]

These are just a few that I ran numbers on... I'm open to NEW INFORMATION... because I want to find something that does flies the straightest in drop and wind drift.... not just one... but both.

1000 yds is ONLY used to show the BEST LONG RANGE LASER ABILITY.

caliber/yds /drop inches/10 mph wind drift @3 oclock in inches/moa drop

22-243 90 berger 3400 fps.--- 1000yd... 185.38... 58.41... 17.70
22-243, 80 amax, 3558 fps --- 1000yd... 183.81... 65.59... 17.55
22-243, 75 amax 3650 fps... 1000yd... 181.93... 69.08... 17.37

20-250, 55 berger 3770 fps --- 1000yd... 199.22... 89.22... 19.02

here is a 243, 55 gr, 3850 fps... same zero and everything at 1000 yds.

1000yd .... 260.69 .... 138.42 .... 24.89

here is a 22-250, 55 gr, 3800 fps... same as above...

1000yd ... 312.13 ...165.88 .... 29.81


257 wby , 75 gr, 4300 fps

1000yd 188.39 110.96 17.99


243, 90 gr, 3200 fps

1000yd... 326.17 129.34 31.15


6.5, 130gr, 3000 fps

1000yd... 239.75 66.52 22.89


300 win mag, 125 gr, 3900 fps

1000yd... 232.11... 121.86... 22.16

 

[daniel brothers]

My friend and I have both had our 22-243 AI running 80 amaxes up into the 3700 area... but they were hot.... but they shot.... but not as accurate as taming her down to 3558 fps. The brass has not been a issue at all... and we only neck size. I do want to try a different load to see if I can find a node that is a little hotter. I don't really need it, but it's just a point of interest I guess.

I guess when the ultimate coyote round is brought up, I just wonder what people really consider that to be... what requirements... what is their rule of thumb.

 

[SheepDog]

My friend and I have both had our 22-243 AI running 80 amaxes up into the 3900 area... but they were hot.... but they shot.... but not as accurate as taming her down to 3558 fps. The brass has not been a issue at all... and we only neck size. I do want to try a different load to see if I can find a node that is a little hotter. I don't really need it, but it's just a point of interest I guess.

I guess when the ultimate coyote round is brought up, I just wonder what people really consider that to be... what requirements... what is their rule of thumb.

I have to wonder as well. The best trajectory and wind resistance will go to the heavier,low drag bullets of a given caliber. What caliber bullet has the highest ballistic coefficient? I am betting that they are not considered varmint cartridges. 30, 338, and 50 caliber bullets come to mind for the ones that have the best BC. There must be more to the decision than that. What cartridge/gun shoots high enough velocities to make up for the lack of the best BC?
What it comes down to for me is what gun can I humanely kill the critter with at the ranges I am willing to shoot. I would imagine that the range you limit yourself to has as much to do with emotion as it does the science, and ability to get closer to your game.

 

[onelastshot]

I try not to complicate matters when possible; often times I find that less is more. That being said I have two rifles for Coyotes, a 22-250AI and a 6MMAI. Out to 300 yards the 22-250AI is a lazer, there's no compensating for distance or wind drift. When we talk about exceeding the 300 mark, I'll defer to my 6mmAI. The 12 twist with 105 pills doesn't break the 4000 speed limit but, with proper scope adjustments it will kill out beyond 600 yards without hesitation.

For me, when you delve into the 6.5 caliber, I utilize these calibers for deer size game and larger. My 6.5-284 is built for mule deer and more. I just think that a 6.5 caliber at speeds exceeding the 4000 mark for the lowly coyote is a bit much.

 

[fredo]

My friend and I have both had our 22-243 AI running 80 amaxes up into the 3700 area... but they were hot.... but they shot.... but not as accurate as taming her down to 3558 fps. The brass has not been a issue at all... and we only neck size. I do want to try a different load to see if I can find a node that is a little hotter. I don't really need it, but it's just a point of interest I guess.

I guess when the ultimate coyote round is brought up, I just wonder what people really consider that to be... what requirements... what is their rule of thumb.

My rule of thumb is simple:

Kill the coyote on his end, but don't kill ME on my end!

There are precious few cases that can do both, while stretching point blank range beyond what most other cartridges can already cover...
The .22-243AI happens to do it, with style! Short action friendly, Lapua brass ready, wicked performance while allowing minimal recoil & muzzle blast...

 

[daniel brothers]

The .22 cal, 90 gr pill just has to be the Ultimate... wonder how fast it could be pushed before it poofed... talk about a laser...WOW

 

[Phil]

Dan,

I would think that the 90 would have to be launched from a .22-6mm AI for it to show you the goods......

Phil.

 

[JRS]

Load the 257 Weatherby with the Robinett 88 or 110 and you'll have a laser guided missile

 

[fredo]

Yep.
Going that heavy might get to the point of minimizing point blank "hold on fur" range.
All depends on what your priorities are...

For a calling rifle, I want "hold on fur" distance as far out, as possible. In that regard, I suspect a 75 or even 80gr in the 3550-3650 range will have a further "hold on fur" range, than would a 90 gr in the ~mid 3400 range...

With my 75s, I dial 0.4 mils into a 100yd zero & leave the scope, there. That equates to a ~0-330 yd "hold dead center" allowance, and the bullet is never higher than 2" above line of sight, in closer. Takes the guesswork outta 90+% of called coyotes. The "hangers-up" are only 10%, and are dealt with as follows:
A 400yd coyote is a simple 0.5mil hold, over what I've already dialed. A 500yd holdover is right over 1.0 mil, give or take. Easy to remember & no dialing needed! For yardages in between, just swag a hold between the two. Best part is, unless your hunting in a gale, windage accounting is minimal, thanks to the b.c. on those big heavies. Maybe I'll favor a bit of wind, for 300+. Otherwise, put it on 'em & let 'er rip!

In the (hypothetical) case of a 60gr LD JLK @ 4150, that would actually improve upon & stretch out that 330yd "hold dead center" distance, by 30-40 yds. That would REALLY be doing something!!
With that same 0.4mils dialed on the turret, 0.5mil holdover range would be extended to about ~425yds. But, a full mil holdver would be about the same 500yd range. Will hafta see if that shakes out in real life, though. More importantly, to see if the smaller JLK bullet can still bring the hate with the same authority that a big Amax most assuredly does. Ballistic drop don't mean squat, if you're having to chase wounded coyotes over hill & dale!!!

For calling on stand, ease of use & fast interpolation of holdovers, is what matters, most. And, even in wide open country, a 350+ yd coyote, is a rarity. So, it just makes sense to 'gear up' to optimize what you'll be dealing with, on a consistent basis. And that's why something like a .22-250AI pushing a 55 B-tip in the 4K+ range makes great sense. Shoots FLAT enough in that 0-350yd window (which covers most 'called' coyotes) , bucks the wind OK, hits hard enough, and is very efficient!

The fast twist .22-243AI was an attempt of an improve on that already very, very good thing. And what you get for the extra powder burn is almost the same flat trajectory, with improved wind bucking ability, and more delivery of energy on target. Going with 'too' heavy' a bullet might begin to diverge from that makes the .22-243AI so badazz, in the 1st place...


For shooting longer, verified range, from a fixed rest & position, dialing a bit more elevation for a heavier bullet, doesn't make or break anything. Once you're dialing, you're dialing. At that point, the correction you hafta dial to, is academic. Stepping up to a 90gr, for me, would mean shortening my "hold on fur" range...something I'm NOT willing to give up, as a caller!

Wouldn't mind seeing what you actually get outta a 90gr, though! So, don't let me stop ya...

 

[daniel brothers]

I guess I never considered the Ultimate Coyote Caliber to be limited to a point blank range of hold on fur. For a calling weapon... I agree 100%... but I didn't know we were talking about that mid range limit... my bad.

 

[scope eye]

Another great Coyote caliber or round is a 270 Win, yes that is right a 270 that was my first coyote and varmint rig, I use to buy those Speer 90gr Hollow Points in those Value Packs of 650, it's a black box with a gold sticker. that with 63gr to 65gr of RL17 is a 4000 fps round any day. who doesn't own or have access to a 270. I also shoot those out of my 270 WSM, 270 WBY, and 270 RUM, all 4 have 11 twist 28" barrels, there speeds are in the stratosphere.









Dean

 

[fredo]

I guess I never considered the Ultimate Coyote Caliber to be limited to a point blank range of hold on fur. For a calling weapon... I agree 100%... but I didn't know we were talking about that mid range limit... my bad.

"Ultimate" is whatever you deem it to be, for however you want to hunt/ shoot them. What's right only matters, if its right, for YOU!

Seeing as how I liken most coyote 'hunters' as being callers, then maximizing point blank range is at the top of the priority list.
The luxury afforded from flat trajectory, is that having an accurate range is not necessary. As long as that coyote is with "xxx" yards, its a "hold on fur" deal. That negates the need for rangefinders, and squelches an inaccurate 'on the fly' range guesstimation. Just totally takes them out of the equation. That said, any cartridge that will stretch that "xxx" range, without suffering from too much recoil or muzzle blast, is my version of "ultimate"...

In the case of our .22-243AIs, its not like that 75 or 80 gr bullet quits workin' beyond that "xxx"range! Those lovely projectiles will drop a hammer on a 25-45 lb. canine for ALOT further than that. Heck, that little 75Amax @ 3650 gets to 1,000yds as flat as my .30-338 Norma Imp. pushing a 215 Hybrid @ 3150! That is, in a word....INSANE!!!


A .224 cal. 90 gr, pushed at 3450, won't shoot flatter than a 75 @ 3650, until past 800yds.
Same goes for your 80gr @ 3550fps. The 90gr won't shoot flatter until almost 800yds.

So, ask yourself this: "why shoot a 90, when a 75 or 80 both beat it, from 0-800yds?"

Like Phil said, if ya stepped up to a (long action required) .22-6mmAI, then you'd likely gain enough capacity to push a 90gr to where it would likely beat what we've already got. But, then you're stepping up to a different action, not loading sweet Lapua .243 brass, and you'll have to figure out the hard way whether a 90gr will hold together & be a reliable killer. Or, not...

Up to you, but I know a good thing when I see it And, my friend, you've already got it!!!

 

[daniel brothers]

Dean... I'd pay a entry fee just to look at your awesome collection of weapons... WOW


Fredo... you are absolutely correct. I went back up to my above post and added the 75 gr amax... it sure does shine. I got started on the 90 berger because of two Montana Government Hunters that used them all the time. I switched to 80 amaxes for more expansion. I haven't tried the 75's, but I have some that need exercise.

My 20 cal and 22 cal, both have the same identical drops and drifts out to 600 yds.... it's only then that they separate a tad...but not much.

I'll never get rid of these two calibers... they are my favorites.

It was my bad of understanding about the Ultimate coyote caliber, because I just figured that those coyotes under 400 yds were just dead coyotes without any extra challenges. To me... the Ultimate is that setup which has built in forgiveness on drops and drifts for longer shots.

Your right about having a very good caliber, it's as close to being a laser as I can get.

I have to also apologize for my typing skills... it sometimes does not come across friendly... but I really am friendly... it's just my English Teachers fault.

 

[rcparker1]

my new coyote gun im playing with is a 270wsm no throat shooting 90-110 bullets. with the popularity of the 6.8spc a whole new line of bullets have come up to try. just breaking barrel in now so no real info t report

 

[scope eye]

In my 270 WSM I usually load 70gr of RL17 with the 90s, that way I can get 100 rounds from a pound of powder. My take no prisoner or fur load is 72gr to 73gr, either of these from 70 to 73 will get you a vapor trail in the right conditions. Barnes and Nosler make 85 grain versions sierra makes a 90gr HP, Speer makes 90gr and 100gr versions and Hornady makes a 110gr Vmax. Cool

Dean

 

[boltfluter]

Years ago I gave the 65 JLK's a try. There was minimal expansion even when pushed hard from a .22 CHeetah. Went back to the 75 A-max after having several runners from the JLK's. Problem solved.

Paul

www.boltfluting.com