Turn Your FX-120i into a Prometheus

[ThunderDownUnder]

Adam, a technical question for you on your great little trickler!

I have a FX-120i just like you use in your You Tube demo and noticed you were getting your power to run the controller and stepper motor from the scale's power supply.

In your video I see you pick up the 11-12+ VDC from pin 9, so I had a look in the manual to see what it gives for the RS232 pin out. The manual just shows pin 9 as not connected, (obviously it is and gives 11-12+ VDC) and the plug pack supply is rated at 11VA. The plug pack supplies 12VDC at a 1 amp rating to the scale.

Have you found this power supply adequate for prolonged use?

The scale's supply is obliviously more than adequate for the scale's requirements including RS 232 comms, but it now has a controller and stepper motor hanging off it as well. The scale also needs to be immune to the noise put on its supply with the additional micro controller and stepper. So I'm guessing you have used bypass components to prevent interference to the scale.

I'm curious because I am going to make up something more like a RCBS Charge Master to drop a complete charge weight into a pan on the FX-120i. I plan on using a separate power supply (plug pack) to drive it, as I would not want to create any potential interference with the scale's supply and operation. I'm just making a one-off to suit my own needs, at the moment I use my Charge Master almost exclusively and the scale just sits on the bench completely unloved.

I've been meaning to get around to doing this for ages and now I figure I can make something faster and more accurate than the Charge Master, so its getting done. Thanks to your nicely done trickler and videos, I'm motivated to build a replacement for the old Charge Master.

 

[adamjmac]

Adam, a technical question for you on your great little trickler!

I have a FX-120i just like you use in your You Tube demo and noticed you were getting your power to run the controller and stepper motor from the scale's power supply.

In your video I see you pick up the 11-12+ VDC from pin 9, so I had a look in the manual to see what it gives for the RS232 pin out. The manual just shows pin 9 as not connected, (obviously it is and gives 11-12+ VDC) and the plug pack supply is rated at 11VA. The plug pack supplies 12VDC at a 1 amp rating to the scale.

Have you found this power supply adequate for prolonged use?

The scale's supply is obliviously more than adequate for the scale's requirements including RS 232 comms, but it now has a controller and stepper motor hanging off it as well. The scale also needs to be immune to the noise put on its supply with the additional micro controller and stepper. So I'm guessing you have used bypass components to prevent interference to the scale.

I'm curious because I am going to make up something more like a RCBS Charge Master to drop a complete charge weight into a pan on the FX-120i. I plan on using a separate power supply (plug pack) to drive it, as I would not want to create any potential interference with the scale's supply and operation. I'm just making a one-off to suit my own needs, at the moment I use my Charge Master almost exclusively and the scale just sits on the bench completely unloved.

I've been meaning to get around to doing this for ages and now I figure I can make something faster and more accurate than the Charge Master, so its getting done. Thanks to your nicely done trickler and videos, I'm motivated to build a replacement for the old Charge Master.

You are correct that the power pin is not described in the manual, but it does provide power. The scale has its own regulation so there's no need to worry about inteference. If the stepper caused a problem then it would be noticeable when the trickler is dropping the last few kernels because a stepper at slow speeds is quite 'steppy'... but the scale continues to work just fine.

The TB-248 can handle the current but the adapters A&D provides in other countries, and more recently the TB-274 in the US, are not able to keep up. I am providing a 2 amp RP adapter with all tricklers now which can be swapped in in case you don't have the TB-248. The motor draws very little power when its running however when it starts and stops the current spikes which causes weak adapters to drop voltage momentarily. The scale sees that as "low battery" and shuts itself off.

Good luck with your build, but I have to say... order one of my tricklers and you won't be disappointed

 

[ThunderDownUnder]

You are correct that the power pin is not described in the manual, but it does provide power. The scale has its own regulation so there's no need to worry about inteference. If the stepper caused a problem then it would be noticeable when the trickler is dropping the last few kernels because a stepper at slow speeds is quite 'steppy'... but the scale continues to work just fine.

The TB-248 can handle the current but the adapters A&D provides in other countries, and more recently the TB-274 in the US, are not able to keep up. I am providing a 2 amp RP adapter with all tricklers now which can be swapped in in case you don't have the TB-248. The motor draws very little power when its running however when it starts and stops the current spikes which causes weak adapters to drop voltage momentarily. The scale sees that as "low battery" and shuts itself off.

Good luck with your build, but I have to say... order one of my tricklers and you won't be disappointed

Thanks for the reply Adam and it looks like you already have it covered with the new 2A adapter. The adapter on my scale is tiny and thats what got me thinking about how you managed it.
Dont tempt into buying your trickler as I have considered it because you have done such a great job. I have also noticed you are open to ideas from others who are using your trickler and I really like that attitude on customer feedback. Its going to be interesting to see what else you end up designing and making for use in this sport of ours!

 

[clowdis]

Just got one of these setups running. It's the "bugs nuts"! Thanks Adam!

 

[hkfan45]

how's the project going?

Came up with another little incremental improvement / add-on everyone might be interested in.

Was reloading some 7 SAUM the other night and using H1000. H1000 has rather coarse kernels that frequently bunch up and the trickler likes to drop several of them at a time even when set to a very slow "finishing" speed making for frequent overcharges. I encounter the same kind of multiple-kernel bunching/dropping behavior with Varget and H4350 but not as bad as with H1000. With smaller kernel powders like AR-Comp, H4895, and N133, they usually run with only very rare overcharges.

While picking out a few H1000 kernels from yet another overcharge I had an idea that a small restrictor pin in the center of the trickler tube would help flatten the piled up kernels in the trickler tube and help the trickler dispense only single kernels at the very end of the ramp down.

For a quick and dirty experiment I stripped some copper wire, bent it into shape, and used zipties to attach it to the trickler. The wire pokes into the end of the trickler tube about 1/2-5/8". The wire is centered in the trickler tube, and my trickler tube runs very true so at no time does the tube "wobble" and contact the wire.

Results... absolutely no overcharges with H1000 for the rest of the session, I was able to increase the trickler finishing speed slightly without causing more overcharges, and the restrictor wire does not adversely affect the high speed feed rate of the trickler. It may slow the trickler dispensing rate down slightly in high speed but not having to deal with frequent overcharges saves more time overall.

Will be testing it with Varget and RL16 tonight but I expect results similar to H1000.

I don't have one of the V2 tricklers yet, but I'm guessing this mod would work for the V2 as well if you're encountering occasional multiple kernel dropping & overcharges.

Next up is making a more cosmetically "pretty" version of the restrictor wire compared to the current cobbled-together test piece… it's ugly, but it works! Will probably use copper or stainless wire for the “final” version and drill and tap the trickler body to attach it with a screw via a small loop bent around the screw.

View attachment 997373

 

[1lnbrdg]

Received the updated trickler on Saturday. Works wonderfully! The long tube without the "Add-on" length seems to have smoothed out the 1-kernel consistency a lot. The bearings have so far kept the trickler from hanging up.

I had conversed via email with Adam before ordering about different things that may make the trickler hang up and he had some great ideas there but I couldn't solve it. Honestly think now it was just a loose fit/possibly galling of the original powder trickler and the bearings have made it run smooth as glass.

100 rounds of 6SLR loaded with H-1000 (large kernel , no problems
140 rounds of .223 loaded with IMR-4320 (small kernel), no problems

If you have problems with the original trickler hanging up, add the bearings on your own or order the updated trickler.

Great product.

 

[ericbc7]

Hey Adam, first kudos on a great product.
I am loading 6.5 Creedmoor with H4350.
I found that in 20 loads my trickler with the new brass bushing and extended tube bound up twice. Am I not lubricating it properly?

 

[Kyle Schultz]

Hey Adam, first kudos on a great product.
I am loading 6.5 Creedmoor with H4350.
I found that in 20 loads my trickler with the new brass bushing and extended tube bound up twice. Am I not lubricating it properly?

I have the same issue and have conversed with Adam about it. It is not a lubrication issue. He believes that kernels get "jammed" in the mouth. We're both guessing it's when the feed hole is facing down. No real solution offered. I'm living with the issue for now. Only real problem with a neat tool.

The feed hole has square edges. I've thought that maybe beveling them off with a dremel tool might help but I just haven't been brave enough to try. Was really hoping the community might come up with a effective solution. Good luck.

 

[rardoin]

Hey Adam, first kudos on a great product.
I am loading 6.5 Creedmoor with H4350.
I found that in 20 loads my trickler with the new brass bushing and extended tube bound up twice. Am I not lubricating it properly?

Correct in that the long kernel powders will occasionally get jammed and a little manual twist to shear the kernel will get it going again. Finer powder/ball powder has not jammed in mine. I have jams about twice in loading 80rds or so for a match using H4350 or H4831sc. I just keep an eye on the trickler while it is dispensing a charge.

 

[XTR]

Haven't gotten to do much testing on my new V2 but I did notice that when I got it one of the the brass bearings for the trickler was overly tight, as in had to hold it in pliers to get it on the tube.

Being the well stocked firearms enthusiast (and a former Navy Nuke MM) I grabbed the JB bore paste from the cleaning kit and in about 3 minutes it was lapped slick as a whistle. Seems to be working great now.

I do my initial drop with a Harrells Culver straight into the pan (not on the scale) and trickle up the last 0.5 gr. Seems quick, I've tested with VV and H powders, but I haven't done any "production" runs yet.

 

[1lnbrdg]

So, I'm thinking off the cuff here, sitting in my office. If you put a longer (?) self-tapping screw into the side of the measure, where it ended up with the point coming in at the tube from the side where the orifice on the tube is rotating down and around, would this break up the jamming?

 

[ericbc7]

I watch the trickler closely now and in 2 situations I have had to manually advance the trickler. This is not a problem since the output is not tied to the trickler performance. I just need to keep an eye on the function

 

[Jdne5b]

I don't know what the life should be, but in my V1 I started having a lot of issues with it binding up. I replaced the rubber O-ring/drive belt and it went away. V2 is on my wishlist, just wish it was cheaper to get here from Canada eh.

 

[Alexander-M]

My V1 would bind up very, very rarely with Varget. Since I have had the V2, it has bound only once with Varget in several hundred rounds, probably the same as the V1.

However, with H4831SC, the V2 Trickler may bind once every 50 rounds. I do not mind this at all, as all it takes is a quick manual spin of the tube handle. The only problem I had was that I could not tell right away that the belt was slipping and the tube not turning. To make the binding more apparent, I wound a piece of 1/8" wide black tape around the tube. Now, when the tube stops turning, I can tell right away, and manually turn the handle.


Alex

 

[Twoboxer]

I had reported trickler binding to Adam when using N570, but I considered it an outlier due to it's long, thick cylindrical shape. While more torque might help, it seemed to me that having more free space under the trickler rod might allow greater possible movement of any kernel that causes the binding.

 

[jlow]

My V1 would bind up very, very rarely with Varget. Since I have had the V2, it has bound only once with Varget in several hundred rounds, probably the same as the V1.

However, with H4831SC, the V2 Trickler may bind once every 50 rounds. I do not mind this at all, as all it takes is a quick manual spin of the tube handle. The only problem I had was that I could not tell right away that the belt was slipping and the tube not turning. To make the binding more apparent, I wound a piece of 1/8" wide black tape around the tube. Now, when the tube stops turning, I can tell right away, and manually turn the handle.
View attachment 1004721

Alex

That's interesting. I only have a V1 with a bearing that I put in myself and with that setup, I have never experienced binding - have loaded up more than 1k rounds. Have used Varget, H4350, and TAC. When your trickler bind up what exactly is causing it?

 

[rardoin]

That's interesting. I only have a V1 with a bearing that I put in myself and with that setup, I have never experienced binding - have loaded up more than 1k rounds. Have used Varget, H4350, and TAC. When your trickler bind up what exactly is causing it?

It is as if it is 'shearing a kernel'....like a powder thrower 'crunching' while cutting a kernel of stick powder except it halts the tube while the belt slips. When I manually spin the tube it feels like it is shearing the kernel and it then continues to finish trickling the charge. Since I am adding a pinch of graphite to the powder in the hopper it occurs less.

 

[spclark]

I bought a V1 to accompany a new Fx120i early last year, can't say enough good things about it.

BUT even before first use I added the sealed bearings and a customized 5/16" OD brass feed tube made from a length bought at a not-so-local hardware store... mostly for the length. The supplied aluminum extension's still used, I just wanted the trickler a little farther from my scale for easy access to the pans.

Thinking about making the hole in that tube I put mine nearer the output side than the drive side, filled the drive end with epoxy to make clean-up faster.

The feed hole itself I cut with a fine 3/16"
chainsaw file held perpendicular to the tube so the edges aren't square. I've had zero issues with jammed kernels even with H4350 or the new IMR4451. Cut so it leaves about 2/3 the original tube circumference there's plenty of room for kernels to fall into the tube during operation.

Any burrs were removed with that same file carefully used inside the tube, then an X-Acto knife's tip to blunt the sharp edges where new hole edges meet tube ID.

 

[Alexander-M]

In reference to my post (#615), Jlow wrote, (#617):
"When your trickler binds up what exactly is causing it?"

Rardoin replied (#618):
"It is as if it is 'shearing a kernel'"

Precisely!
Alex

 

[jlow]

It is as if it is 'shearing a kernel'....like a powder thrower 'crunching' while cutting a kernel of stick powder except it halts the tube while the belt slips. When I manually spin the tube it feels like it is shearing the kernel and it then continues to finish trickling the charge. Since I am adding a pinch of graphite to the powder in the hopper it occurs less.

That's interesting because I have not seen any shearing the kernel-like effect. It's hard to imagine that happening since the only hard surface that is rotating is the trickler tube and at least in the powder entry port area, there is nothing to shear against. The only thing I can think of is with the V2, there might be a gap somewhere in one of the bearing area where a kernel can get stuck.

My "bearing" is actually not a bearing but a thin tube like affair that is inserted over the trickler tube and sits between the body and the tube. It is of course reasonably tight fitting but loose enough for its low friction surface to act like a bearing, so pretty impossible for any powder, even the ball type to get into. I think this idea came from a poster called J-Rod (look at around page 17 of this thread) This may be the reason for the difference.