Shooter13
Gold $$ Contributor
10 is actually zero one full turn out!! I could have gone counter clockwise and I think I would have the same results in the opposite direction. You are changing the vibration cycle with the tuner.
Tuners
- Thread starter Bottom Fodder
- Start date
JEFFPPC
Gold $$ Contributor
Your correct. Almost 20 years ago when I got my first tuner I shot a strip target as I moved the tuner. I kept it. 6 months later I shot the same load, same barrel on an identical target. I layed the one target over the other. It was amazing how the holes lined up. I was sold. Still sold close 20 years later. So when I asked the maker why he quit making thrm he said people won't use them as instructed and I am tired of the people. I get it! Fortunately I bought several back then, still using them.
Bottom Fodder
Silver $$ Contributor
Ok after almost 100 reply's tuners are still popular and I kinda understand more of what they do as far as change the harmonies of the barrel. So let me ask this question would a tuner be more useful on a long lightweight barrel than a short heavy stiff barrel ?
swd
Silver $$ Contributor
They are just more reactive on a lighter contour not necessarily better.
I "think" length may have more to do with it than diameter as I have tuners on two 26 inch barrels one a H V Taper and one a Sendero taper and find tuning increments to be closely related. These barrels are not the same caliber. Just my opinion and could be wrong no doubt.
I'd shoot 12 thru 17 in better conditions and see what it shows. 12,13 and 14 are almost textbook shapes...even though I told ya I liked 15 yesterday. I viewed them on my phone while talking, fwiw and16 and 17 should either confirm or condemn 15 and they simply aren't there to see on this target. You know what to look for. If 12 ends up being your spot, 15 will almost certainly will not repeat. This is one reason why you can't just go by a single small group.
I don't look for what some call "wide spots" on a tuner, since every move changes a constant. IOW, every move SHOULD show a value on the target. Yes, some places will show bigger groups on either side of a sweet spot but outta tune is outta tune in BR. In short range, I actually prefer the groups to grow in a more pronounced way because I'm reading the group shapes to judge tune. It's obviously easier to read tune if the groups open more clearly. In LR, I can see some value in going with what might appear to be a wide spot simply because the groups are not huge on either side but that's not how I feel a tuner is best used, if maintaining peak tune is the goal.
Different disciplines require different precision and have different challenges, like seeing sighters, for example. In SR, I see no reason to go to the record with a half-assed tune. That's often a tune that's just good enough to lose with but not be last. LOL!
Only other thing I'll add is that I way much prefer people make their own target, where all groups are on the same horizontal plane for this test. Frankie's is pretty clear but not all show the sine wave as clearly as his example. Also, he was using my lighter model tuner which tends to show tune a bit differently than the standard model, but close. I always recommend the standard tuner if making weight and good gun balance are at all possible with it. I made the lighter model specifically due to the 10.5lb LV class, where it can be tough to make weight with the standard tuner. It looks cool and all but that extra couple of ounces is wonderful, if you can stand it. And I feel comfortable saying I know that tuner like the back of my hand. It's pretty amazing how much difference that 2ozs of difference makes.
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This is exactly why I involve myself in so many tuner discussions. There has been a ton of, we'll call it "varying instruction" on tuners for a long time. We're still reading some of those variances in this thread, to this day. Old habits die hard, I suppose.
JEFFPPC
Gold $$ Contributor
I have found guys have an opinion. They ask you how you do something , then they keep asking others until they find someone that agrees with them. So more and more when I am tempted to give give some advice from my experience, I catch myself and keep quiet. The older I get the more valuable my time is to me and the less I am willing to give to those who don't really listen.
Shooter13
Gold $$ Contributor
Now sir...................that's funny! Speaking of dress, (not a dress) my wife hates how I dress, I'm just a blue jean and Carhart kinda guy!
jackieschmidt
Gold $$ Contributor
More times than not, you will catch me in one of our blue work uniforms.
If the Wife wants to go out, I put on a clean one.
Shooter13
Gold $$ Contributor
This is exactly why I use your tuners, I have a problem I have your cell. Send you a picture and call. I'm still learning, I hope to shoot better this year than last, I'm going back to the range probably Friday just for practice. I want to learn to be smoother with less wasted motion, (that's going to take a LOT of work!). I also appreciate your friendship.
Me too, my friend. Film yourself shooting! That's some of the best advice I've ever been given, in that regard.
Shooter13
Gold $$ Contributor
Love it!!More times than not, you will catch me in one of our blue work uniforms.
If the Wife wants to go out, I put on a clean one.
Danley
Danley Precision
Not far from being what I consider an ASKHOLE
… Just to clarify, this statement isn’t aimed towards anyone here.
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DirtySteve
Gold $$ Contributor
JFrank, An "askhole" is someone who may have been correctly told something about an issue but disagrees with it. Then he continues asking questions until he finds someone just as dumb as himself, and agrees with him.. Disregarding the correct information he was given... I have a neighbor who asked me questions and then asked my other neighbor the same question. We gave answers he did not agree with and he kept thinking he was right.... This guy also once told me that Eric Cortina did not know what he was talking about concerning neck sizing.... One other thing he said was a mini 14 he used to own was the most accurate gun he ever had. No one in there right mind would ever say that unless he only owned shotguns..
Edit. I watched this guy missed a prairie dog eight times at 25 yards with a Ruger 10-22... The Prairie dog was in shot and barely moved...
Edit. I watched this guy missed a prairie dog eight times at 25 yards with a Ruger 10-22... The Prairie dog was in shot and barely moved...
Greg@wfcustom
Gold $$ Contributor
100% on this!
Reminds me of a conversation I had with one of the shooters at our BR match.
He asked me a question that had to do with barrel vibration, and as I was trying to give him a very short course in physics informed me that I had no idea what I was talking about.
My reply was the good news is he would never have to worry about that again.
I don't do barrel work for him anymore either!
Since I don't know what I'm talking about, I probably don't know how to operate machine tools either.
As my dear departed friend Henry used to say
"People are stupid"
We call it "Henry's Theorem"
JMHO
G
Nothing..Do your 3 shot groups get smaller if you keep shooting? Probably started out smallest and gets bigger from there, is my guess.
Sometimes, less is more.
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Alex Wheeler
Site $$ Sponsor
You have some of the best tuners on earth at deep creek. Id be asking them.
Take it as you will. It was meant to carry a point but with humor, not crap. Yes, sometimes, less IS more. If you don't agree, that's ok. We can agree to disagree and move on.
One more analogy is...you get 5 opinions and 4 are wrong. Do you average them to get the answer you want or do you test for yourself?
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