Tuners

[ELR LVR]

Chucked it in a 3 jaw and chambered it without even indicating it in.

That's not the kind of thing one admits in public

 

[Shooter13]

USING AN EZELL TUNER IN MY EXPERIENCE

I have used a tuner for several years now and can tell you with complete confidence that they do work. As one well know shooter “tested” them showing no or moderate that they do work he did not follow instruction. You can’t just randomly turn the tuner. I have followed Mikes instruction to the letter and they have always worked, knowing what way and how much to turn takes experience in using them. I do 15 3 shot groups turning the tuner ONE mark inward and that is after having the tuner installed and finding the best load and bullet depth FIRST! You can literally watch and pretty much know WHERE the point of impact is going to be. I wish I’d saved some of my test from the past, I do this test on EVERY new barrel I have chambered, so say to never move the tuner again once the best “tune” is found, I find this to not be true for me. There is very little movement AFTER my initial placement of the tuner but it can chance some, maybe one or two marks one way or the other (this is where you need to have experience in how the shape of the group will change depending on how (what direction) you move your tuner. Don’t believe me, test for yourself and DON’T SKIP A SINGLE STEP!

Great shooting to all of you. Your slamming me won’t change my mind. Proof might.

 

[Bill Norris]

USING AN EZELL TUNER IN MY EXPERIENCE

I have used a tuner for several years now and can tell you with complete confidence that they do work. As one well know shooter “tested” them showing no or moderate that they do work he did not follow instruction. You can’t just randomly turn the tuner. I have followed Mikes instruction to the letter and they have always worked, knowing what way and how much to turn takes experience in using them. I do 15 3 shot groups turning the tuner ONE mark inward and that is after having the tuner installed and finding the best load and bullet depth FIRST! You can literally watch and pretty much know WHERE the point of impact is going to be. I wish I’d saved some of my test from the past, I do this test on EVERY new barrel I have chambered, so say to never move the tuner again once the best “tune” is found, I find this to not be true for me. There is very little movement AFTER my initial placement of the tuner but it can chance some, maybe one or two marks one way or the other (this is where you need to have experience in how the shape of the group will change depending on how (what direction) you move your tuner. Don’t believe me, test for yourself and DON’T SKIP A SINGLE STEP!

Great shooting to all of you. Your slamming me won’t change my mind. Proof might.

Your experience mirrors mine. Tuners work if the load and shooter does. Testing in conditions shows there is some small amount of adjusting that needs to be done. But you can't wring the threads out of it making these changes. (Keep the movement small)

 

[Jim Ziegler]

What sold me on tuners is last year Bruce and I went to the Nevada LR regional. They shoot e targets and Friday was a practice day with absolutely perfect conditions. My 6.5x47 which shoots pretty dam good at Sac was holding a solid 3/4 MOA waterline at Sparks over about 30 practice shots. I was happy with my practice, shooting mostly 10’s and X’s Being new to tuners I didn’t think about moving the tuner until the very end. I moved it 1 click and the waterline instantly dropped to all just sub X ring over the next 10 shots. I went over to Bruce and saw his Dasher was shooting a just little under 3/4 MOA waterline so I reached over and turned it 1 click and it came down to right at 1/2 then I tuned it one more and instantly it was shooting mostly a solid 1/4 moa waterline! Seeing 2 guns that were in good tune at their home range go out of tune 4000’ higher and then being able to get them back in a click or 2 completely sold me on them!

I had the same experience going from CO to AZ for the SWN. I had my gun shooting lights out here at home then when I got to Phoenix it opened up during Tuesday morning practice. I turned my tuner in 5 lines at a time and after the 3rd adjustment it was back to shooing as good as it had been at home. Made a believer out of me!

 

[Shooter13]

But you can't wring the threads out of it making these changes. (Keep the movement small)

That is the reason he has indicator marks on them so you do it ONE at a time.

 

[Bill Norris]

That is the reason he has indicator marks on them so you do it ONE at a time.

100 %

 

[Rob01]

Depends on the tuner and also barrel contour. I moved two at a time with a lighter barrel and ATS tuner and 3 with a heavier barrel.

 

[Bc'z]

What sold me on tuners is last year Bruce and I went to the Nevada LR regional. They shoot e targets and Friday was a practice day with absolutely perfect conditions. My 6.5x47 which shoots pretty dam good at Sac was holding a solid 3/4 MOA waterline at Sparks over about 30 practice shots. I was happy with my practice, shooting mostly 10’s and X’s Being new to tuners I didn’t think about moving the tuner until the very end. I moved it 1 click and the waterline instantly dropped to all just sub X ring over the next 10 shots. I went over to Bruce and saw his Dasher was shooting a just little under 3/4 MOA waterline so I reached over and turned it 1 click and it came down to right at 1/2 then I tuned it one more and instantly it was shooting mostly a solid 1/4 moa waterline! Seeing 2 guns that were in good tune at their home range go out of tune 4000’ higher and then being able to get them back in a click or 2 completely sold me on them!

Shawn this is the very discussion I was having with @Greg@wfcustom.
My thoughts
If a rifle is in tune at at home, what happens when your away from home and your preloaded ammo is not shooting as it should due to barometric conditions and elevation changes?

I just need to figure out which tuner I want to get
Ezell or DS Fabrication?

 

[Rob01]

ATS screws right on to muzzle threads and why I went with it. No special threading and you can still use a muzzle device or suppressor with it.

Products

Dedicated to providing quality products to the shooting community.

www.kineticsecuritysolutions.com

 

[Northridge]

I’ve decided to buy one of these fancy dancy tuners and give it a try.

I’ll assume each manufacture would offer a machining diagram for their individual product.

They do yes Jim

Shawn Williams

 

[Alex Wheeler]

People have often said that because of the many variables in reloading, we never really have "the best" load for a barrel because we can't extensively test everything. I've wondered if maybe the hummer barrel phenomenon isn't an inherent property of that barrel but the rare occasion when the shooter actually does come across the best load for that given barrel

I get what your saying. But I dont agree. Most competitors (competitors use the majority of tuners) have the history base of the cartridge they shoot. If you learn a reamer, barrel, bullet, powder combo you can almost plug and play the next barrel. So by barrel 5 you should be splitting hairs. Yes the occaisional odd ball will show but its cheaper to just skip it and chamber a new one because they are so rare. Hummers are rare. I have never had one or chambered one. Good tunes are not amonst those that can. But you have to work at it.

 

[TC260]

I get what your saying. But I dont agree. Most competitors (competitors use the majority of tuners) have the history base of the cartridge they shoot. If you learn a reamer, barrel, bullet, powder combo you can almost plug and play the next barrel. So by barrel 5 you should be splitting hairs. Yes the occaisional odd ball will show but its cheaper to just skip it and chamber a new one because they are so rare. Hummers are rare. I have never had one or chambered one. Good tunes are not amonst those that can. But you have to work at it.

Fair enough. It's just my way of looking at things. If a variable or set of variables hasn't been identified to answer a question I try to stay open to alternative explanations.

 

[Greg@wfcustom]

Shawn this is the very discussion I was having with @Greg@wfcustom.
My thoughts
If a rifle is in tune at at home, what happens when your away from home and your preloaded ammo is not shooting as it should due to barometric conditions and elevation changes?

I just need to figure out which tuner I want to get
Ezell or DS Fabrication?

I will preface this with the caveat that I have only used Mike’s tuners on my CF rifles. That said I highly recommend both his tuners and the methodology that he uses. Also the best customer service. Word of warning though, that hillbilly can talk!

 

[Bc'z]

I will preface this with the caveat that I have only used Mike’s tuners on my CF rifles. That said I highly recommend both his tuners and the methodology that he uses. Also the best customer service. Word of warning though, that hillbilly can talk!

Then that makes 3 of us!!

 

[swd]

Shawn this is the very discussion I was having with @Greg@wfcustom.
My thoughts
If a rifle is in tune at at home, what happens when your away from home and your preloaded ammo is not shooting as it should due to barometric conditions and elevation changes?

I just need to figure out which tuner I want to get
Ezell or DS Fabrication?

I’m shooting an Ezell and I’m happy with it. I don’t have them completely figured out. It was also really hot at that shoot too, over 100. Greg’s a damn sharp guy and a hell of a machinist, well worth having a discussion with!

 

[jackieschmidt]

I get what your saying. But I dont agree. Most competitors (competitors use the majority of tuners) have the history base of the cartridge they shoot. If you learn a reamer, barrel, bullet, powder combo you can almost plug and play the next barrel. So by barrel 5 you should be splitting hairs. Yes the occaisional odd ball will show but its cheaper to just skip it and chamber a new one because they are so rare. Hummers are rare. I have never had one or chambered one. Good tunes are not amonst those that can. But you have to work at it.

This is good info.
Many of us Short Range Benchrest Shooters use a very particular make of barrel. In my case, it will either be a Krieger or a Bartlien. These are cut rifled barrels that are very close in their internal measurements. An example is a typical 1-18 30 caliber 4 lands and grooves for VFS. The bore and groove diameter on these are, for all purposes, are identical. I know what combination works in these barrels.

In short, there is very little “tuning” involved. If a barrel will not shoot he load I have found to be right for that combination, it’s probably not going to stay on the rifle. I don’t have time to waste good bullets, powder, and range time messing around with a barrel that I have no faith in.

One of the more difficult things for many shooters to come to terms with is that new barrel is not going to be competitive. I mentored a new shooter last year who had a nice VFS rifle with a new barrel. We spent the better part of a day trying to get it tuned. It also had a tuner from a popular manufacture. I finally told him he had about a 250 17x barrel. It would tease you, but at the end of the day, that’s what it’s going to give you.

That ain’t good enough. But it is one of the realities of the game.

 

[chester999]

One long ranger shooter quit tuners because it was a variable that affected his confidence. As he buys at least 4 barrels at a time. If it doesn't shoot it comes off and on to the next.

 

[Smokedpole]

I built a new LR F-class rifle a few months ago chambered in a Sherman 7 max. I also purchased the Ezell tuner based on recommendations. I was unfamiliar with the 7 max so I pulled the tuner off during load development and barrel break in. Once I was happy with bullet jump , neck tension, primer depth, shoulder bump and powder charger at 600 (4 shots- .8) on a paper target. I put the tuner back on with the hope that the tuner would make my good group better. I turned the tuner out 3 turns and started 3 shot groups on mark number one . The tune came back in at mark 10 and 11 with a nice wind and looked to be 1/2 inch on an electronic target. The tune went away on mark 12 and 13. I went back to mark 10.5 and the group tightened up. My thought process was the fact that I don’t have the ability to analyze group patterns at 100 yards nor do i trust groups at 100 out at 600. But I can tell the difference between a 1.25 and a .5 inch group at 600 fwiw

 

[Fuj]

But I can tell the difference between a 1.25 and a .5 inch group at 600 fwiw

I had 100 cases to fire form on a new barrel. I put Mikes PDT on it, and
went right to 300 yards. Mind you it was just fire forming ammo, but yeah
at 300 yards, the group size changes can look a little more dynamic. This
new cat and rifle I'm working on is meant for 300 yards/meters. I'm not
going to waste ammo tuning at 100, I'll tell ya'......

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

I had 100 cases to fire form on a new barrel. I put Mikes PDT on it, and
went right to 300 yards. Mind you it was just fire forming ammo, but yeah
at 300 yards, the group size changes can look a little more dynamic. This
new cat and rifle I'm working on is meant for 300 yards/meters. I'm not
going to waste ammo tuning at 100, I'll tell ya'......

Pretty busy, so I'll make this short for now, but, yes, once someone is very familiar with using their tuner and interpreting their results, tuning can and should be done at the yardage you plan to compete. I believe you hold that experience and you know what to look for. That's ultimately how it should be done.

Your initial tuner test(sine test) essentially becomes your owners manual, telling you what to do to correct tune and recognizing when to do it. It also establishes your "base setting" from which you'll likely never move from more than a few marks. What I want to clarify is that I believe that initial tuner testing should be at 100 with a cf. There are several very specific things that the tuner test will show that can easily be obscured by wind etc. We all know that the wind just becomes a bigger factor as distance increases. That makes initial testing less reliable...and nobody likes a chinese owners manual. I just think that skipping this step would be doing one's self an injustice when getting started. I typically will shoot the test with any new bbl. The test can be abbreviated a bit once you are familiar enough to know what you're looking for from it. It sounds a lot harder than it is and the sine test is often like a light bulb moment when people see it and how it gives them so much needed info.

But yessir, what you are doing is how it works once you are familiar with them and I know you are. I'm confident that you'll do great. FWIW, as long as it shoots good, you can do the tuner test while fire forming. Then fine tune for the fired brass.