Tuners

[ELR LVR]

Fair enough. It's just my way of looking at things. If a variable or set of variables hasn't been identified to answer a question I try to stay open to alternative explanations.

What variables have not been identified ? Within load development the only variables not yet identified are the loads that have not yet been tested.
I see many people tie one hand behind their back by dictating their rifle is going to shoot with
N-133 or Varget whether the rifle likes it or not.
Largely based upon the fact that's what everyone else is doing and shooting one hole groups with.
and never even try 748 or 2230 or Benchmark or Ramshot etc

I dont know if it is so much a hummer barrel thing, or just that when a guy buys 10 barrels at once to cull the hummer barrel out that lot...
and expects to dictate his 31.3 grns of Varget is going to shoot one holers,
-----odds are simply better having 1 out of 10 barrels actually may do so.
When he could have tried 10 different powders instead.
And the lucky hummer barrel is more that he actually got a barrel with the corresonding harmonics to be a one hole shooting barrel with the small window load he dictates all PPC's must shoot according to law.
(or whatever Cartridge)
Most of the powders and loads I use for example, I see nobody using, such as W-748.
Everyone wants Varget for some reason.
Even when someone asks advice for loads, they pick the most popular and then try to dictate to their rifle.
Those types of people have a loooong linear learning curve to hike up instead of it being exponentially quicker.
----------------------------------
So far I have not seen a hummer barrel, only piss poor load development
Or extensive load development

 

[TC260]

What variables have not been identified ? Within load development the only variables not yet identified are the loads that have not yet been tested.
I see many people tie one hand behind their back by dictating their rifle is going to shoot with
N-133 or Varget whether the rifle likes it or not.
Largely based upon the fact that's what everyone else is doing and shooting one hole groups with.
and never even try 748 or 2230 or Benchmark or Ramshot etc

I dont know if it is so much a hummer barrel thing, or just that when a guy buys 10 barrels at once to cull the hummer barrel out that lot...
and expects to dictate his 31.3 grns of Varget is going to shoot one holers,
-----odds are simply better having 1 out of 10 barrels actually may do so.
When he could have tried 10 different powders instead.
And the lucky hummer barrel is more that he actually got a barrel with the corresonding harmonics to be a one hole shooting barrel with the small window load he dictates all PPC's must shoot according to law.
(or whatever Cartridge)
Most of the powders and loads I use for example, I see nobody using, such as W-748.
Everyone wants Varget for some reason.
Even when someone asks advice for loads, they pick the most popular and then try to dictate to their rifle.
Those types of people have a loooong linear learning curve to hike up instead of it being exponentially quicker.
----------------------------------
So far I have not seen a hummer barrel, only piss poor load development
Or extensive load development

My comment about unknwn variables was general in nature, not specific. If we aren't able to identify the specific set of conditions that cause it to occur then there's aspects of it we don't fully understand yet.

 

[ELR LVR]

My comment about unknwn variables was general in nature, not specific. If we aren't able to identify the specific set of conditions that cause it to occur then there's aspects of it we don't fully understand yet.

Within the accuracy equation we must turn all variables into known constants.
If we have a constant velocity, a constant pressure, a constant reliable ignition, a constant bullet weight etc etc
And if we take that equation and reduce it down to its simplest terms....
The only other variable is , the shooter and the atmoshpheric conditions.
There's a guy on here that shot a .009" record group, I gotta think he knows these things too
(one other variable that can become a constant is the inner surface finish and dia. of your barrel which I see nobody talking about here but is one thing I address with my guns, that's a hint for ya)

 

[JEFFPPC]

Fire suit is on. Very few have used tuners as long as I have. For the life of me I can't understand why you find a load with the tuner off the barrel and then hang the tuner on which I think pretty much guarantees a significant change in harmonics. I don't believe in using the tuner to 'make' the tune but to easily get it back when it starts to go away from wear. Tune your gun with the tuner on and good to go. Tune starts to go a bit off, usually able to get it back eith a dozen shots or less. It's so simple and it seems many are making it so hard. All the answers are on your target.

 

[TC260]

Within the accuracy equation we must turn all variables into known constants.
If we have a constant velocity, a constant pressure, a constant reliable ignition, a constant bullet weight etc etc
And if we take that equation and reduce it down to its simplest terms....
The only other variable is , the shooter and the atmoshpheric conditions.
There's a guy on here that shot a .009" record group, I gotta think he knows these things too
(one other variable that can become a constant is the inner surface finish and dia. of your barrel which I see nobody talking about here but is one thing I address with my guns, that's a hint for ya)

I'm sorry my friend, you're going to have to find somebody else to debate this with because I don't have a position on this issue, I simply don't have a horse in this race. I am interested in continuing to hear what you have to say though and what you've found. You have a lot of good information to add to the discussion and I don't have any reason to debate it. Hope you understand.

 

[swd]

Fire suit is on. Very few have used tuners as long as I have. For the life of me I can't understand why you find a load with the tuner off the barrel and then hang the tuner on which I think pretty much guarantees a significant change in harmonics. I don't believe in using the tuner to 'make' the tune but to easily get it back when it starts to go away from wear. Tune your gun with the tuner on and good to go. Tune starts to go a bit off, usually able to get it back eith a dozen shots or less. It's so simple and it seems many are making it so hard. All the answers are on your target.

This!!

 

[Bill Norris]

Fire suit is on. Very few have used tuners as long as I have. For the life of me I can't understand why you find a load with the tuner off the barrel and then hang the tuner on which I think pretty much guarantees a significant change in harmonics. I don't believe in using the tuner to 'make' the tune but to easily get it back when it starts to go away from wear. Tune your gun with the tuner on and good to go. Tune starts to go a bit off, usually able to get it back eith a dozen shots or less. It's so simple and it seems many are making it so hard. All the answers are on your target.

AGREE 100%

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

I looked into buying a popular tuner but the webpage didn’t have an option to buy it.

Oh well

Maybe it's worth a phone call.

 

[Dave M.]

View attachment 1632260

Solid. Mike will love this. I can see him blowing it up and putting it in his shop.

 

[Shooter13]

Well, here is your tuner test, kind of windy, all are 3 shot groups except #5, when they are spread that far apart another shot won't matter! You can see the consistency of all of it. Mike @gunsandgunsmithing might want a better shooter to do it but for the conditions I'm pretty happy.

 

[Bill Norris]

Well, here is your tuner test, kind of windy, all are 3 shot groups except #5, when they are spread that far apart another shot won't matter! You can see the consistency of all of it. Mike @gunsandgunsmithing might want a better shooter to do it but for the conditions I'm pretty happy.

Not a bad test outcome at all. I like that window from 8 to 10 best as I would settle on 9 for those conditions.

 

[LVLAaron]

Well, here is your tuner test, kind of windy, all are 3 shot groups except #5, when they are spread that far apart another shot won't matter! You can see the consistency of all of it. Mike @gunsandgunsmithing might want a better shooter to do it but for the conditions I'm pretty happy.

That's impossible. Tuners don't work!

 

[Shooter13]

Not a bad test outcome at all. I like that window from 8 to 10 best as I would settle on 9 for those conditions.

Mike likes the higher nodes like 13-15 or 12-15, top of the node.

 

[Bill Norris]

Mike likes the higher nodes like 13-15 or 12-15, top of the node.

Right and that is not a bad place to be either.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

That's impossible. Tuners don't work!

They work great if you dont touch them.

 

[Shooter13]

Well, here is your tuner test, kind of windy, all are 3 shot groups except #5, when they are spread that far apart another shot won't matter! You can see the consistency of all of it. Mike @gunsandgunsmithing might want a better shooter to do it but for the conditions I'm pretty happy.

I was ask about aiming point, it never changed, the center dot is aim point and you can see the tuner doing the work of moving the poi

 

[Bill Norris]

I was ask about aiming point, it never changed, the center dot is aim point and you can see the tuner doing the work of moving the poi

Exactly, very similar to the test Mike showed us sometime back and my test as well.

 

[LVLAaron]

They work great if you dont thouch them.

I put them on my rifles because they really bring the ensemble together.

 

[ELR LVR]

Well, here is your tuner test, kind of windy, all are 3 shot groups except #5, when they are spread that far apart another shot won't matter! You can see the consistency of all of it. Mike @gunsandgunsmithing might want a better shooter to do it but for the conditions I'm pretty happy.

That's so cool
It looks like your barrel reset itself at setting 10... right back to Zero

 

[Fast14riot]

Well, here is your tuner test, kind of windy, all are 3 shot groups except #5, when they are spread that far apart another shot won't matter! You can see the consistency of all of it. Mike @gunsandgunsmithing might want a better shooter to do it but for the conditions I'm pretty happy.

Whats cool, if you superimposed all targets on top of each other in order, poi would look like a CW spiral around poa.