savagedasher said:
This my thoughts . The reason you see more vertical then horizontal is because of gravity. But at some point the vibrations change from vertical to horizontal. That is a tune point. You have a bottom and a top of vertical. Head and tail winds change vertical just like a tuner.
Barrels that have ben timed or clocked at 6 and 12 tune better.
Tuners work in a vertical rectangle. I find barrels that have ben chambered off the true bore not of the od and are timed to the top or bottom tune better.
Lines or numbers on tuners is just a reference where to start.
On a rim fire 22 tuner 0.277777 movement is a tune. On center fire I think it would be about the same. My testing I find the width of a fine tip marker can be too much movement. Larry
Larry, I'm not going to disagree, but there are variables that make that type of blanket statement, regarding how far tune spots are apart, impossible to make. Tuner weight, it's location and barrel stiffness are just a few of those variables.
Herein lies part of why there is so much confusion about tuners. Different designs, weights, thread pitches barrel stiffness..and guns they are on, all make it difficult to state instructions that work on every tuner and/or every gun. It's also part of why my tuners are designed where the threads don't show. Literally, people take one look at an inch or more of tuner threads and jump to the conclusion that it takes lots of movement to affect tune. You and I agree that this is false. With every tuner, of every make, that I've tested, very small adjustments make a difference. Defining what very small means is difficult, as it varies with the above mentioned factors...and then some.
I make mine with a .900x32tpi because it's the closest thing to a "standard" thread pitch and diameter as there is...or was. I'd like to see those dimensions be somewhat standardized to minimize that piece of the confusion when explaining how to adjust them.
As more shooters come around to using tuners, it seems there are more variables every time a new one is released.
As I've said many times, though, it's much easier to use a tuner than to explain, particularly when dealing with different design aspects, gun, and even disciplines.
I certainly don't want to sound like Bill Calfee, but I agree with him that it's just a matter of time before tuners are standard equipment on competitive centerfire rifles. IMO, the advantages are clear as can be and the reasons are backed by physics...not by art work or voodoo magic.
Another thing people have to understand about tuners, is that they don't typically make a perfectly tuned rifle more than perfect. If the standard by which they are judged is against what a gun has done when tuned to the hilt, then people are setting themselves up for disappointment. That applies to anything done to or added to a rifle. The real advantages are not going out of tune as quickly or as badly...and being able to take care of any tune issues at the bench without changing the load or ammo.
This equates to better aggs more so than better groups. We all know a single group means very little, but an agg is what's being contested.
To me, tuners are the biggest advancement in years, to competitive shooting. I haven't shot a match without a tuner in about 8 years now, and I don't see that changing unless something better comes along.
It may sound too good to be true to some, but imagine never loading at the range again. It's the way I've shot benchrest since going to tuners. I get to actually enjoy myself
and be competitive without it being like going to a job. It's a heck of a lot easier to learn to use a tuner than to learn to keep a gun tuned to be competitive with powder charge and seating depth....way, way easier.--Mike Ezell
