Tried a cheap tuner today. Some minor success but nothing to write home about. Wicked wind came up so I didn't get to fully test it's capabilities.
Just gotta keep on keepin' on!
Tune a fish, tune a piano but tune a rifle???
- Thread starter Thor357
- Start date
Just gotta keep on keepin' on!
LVLAaron
Gold $$ Contributor
Again, mass produced barrels. Could be a poor crown, poor chamber, burr in the gas port, sloppy fit with the upper... you take a chance with mass produced stuff..
If you're inclined, I would look at a white oak barrel. They're a gold standard in high power.
www.whiteoakarmament.com
If you're inclined, I would look at a white oak barrel. They're a gold standard in high power.
White Oak 18
5SPR18 The White Oak Armament SPR AR15 Barrels are based on the Army's Squad Designated Marksman (SDM) Rifle Development Program, tasked with improving the accuracy of the standard issue rifle against targets out to 600 meters. We offer these barrels to
www.whiteoakarmament.com
Thanks.Again, mass produced barrels. Could be a poor crown, poor chamber, burr in the gas port, sloppy fit with the upper... you take a chance with mass produced stuff..
If you're inclined, I would look at a white oak barrel. They're a gold standard in high power.
White Oak 18
5SPR18 The White Oak Armament SPR AR15 Barrels are based on the Army's Squad Designated Marksman (SDM) Rifle Development Program, tasked with improving the accuracy of the standard issue rifle against targets out to 600 meters. We offer these barrels to
I'm somewhat familiar with WOA and in the future I might go that route but not today.
And again, folks all over declare Aero Precision/ Ballistic Advantage barrels to be of premium quality.
LVLAaron
Gold $$ Contributor
Ask them to show your the trophies they've won.
WOW!!! I don't know what to say! WOW!!!
Okay you win. Stag Arms makes inferior AR's!
I do, I wouldn't own a piece of crap like yours if it's not capable of shooting consistent size groups of which I know I need to get the job done. Accuracy comes at a price. Some people learn the hard way because they believe a bunch of hype that people regurgitate and have no first hand experience. You have gotten enough information on this subject and then some. Except the fact that your rifle isn't capable of producing consistent small groups that you want. Another thing, my opinion is just that my opinion and I don't give a crap what people think especially when someone wants to be more argumentative than anything else.
Ditto
Most AR's, regardless of the name, are built to satisfy a crowd that is happy with 1-2 moa accuracy with factory ammo. It is what it is. Most are built to "mil-spec" which is also a signal that they are not up to the standards of most people in search of truly accurate firearms. Not to say they are bad, though. With work, I think low to mid .3's is about as good as can reasonably be expected from a functioning semi auto ar15, though. (premium bbl) Some might do a little better but the vast majority don't come close to that level.
Rather than a pissing match, this should be a thread where two extremes can come to some understanding, that the platforn as well as factory ammo greatly hurt the potential but that it should be improvable over the 1.5-2 moa stuff. Therein lies a problem if the owner doesn't or isn't willing to do things that might make the difference. If the issue is tune, a tuner will correct that. If it's something else, they won't, but if it's a combination, you need to find the weak link before doing anything else, particularly if you don't want to throw money at it. Smart money is to do the simple things first, like tune the load and go over the gun as well as letting someone else shoot it to see if it shoots the same for them. No one has mentioned wind flags so I will...The wind has been blowing pretty hard here for the last couple of weeks or so. No flags, no chance of knowing what's going on, so stop and get flags or just wait for better conditions to shoot in.
Just be methodical and don't assume it's not wind, or at least a lot of it. Wind is the most common issue for a ton of people when they start looking for smaller groups. Don't tell me the wind wasn't blowing unless you have flags because you can't know that! The best you can do is shoot in what you think are good conditions and pray because you really have very little else to go on without them. Nobody wants to hear it but flags are the single most important tool in shooting small, consistently, period.
As others have said, your bbl is of avg AR quality. They make a really good one at times but you have to consider yours is average until you know better. Group shapes tell expericed shooters more than I can describe in a post. You just have to know what to look for.
I'll help you with a tuner but the most common mistake with them is moving them randomly or too far at a time and different tuners have different values so it's not a one size fits all tutorial.
I don't see this going anywhere until you listen to some good advice but at the same time, I think you are ahead of some of the advice given..I think.
Don't assume anything. Just because you have a stag and your buddy's shoots ok means nothing. Even amongst top of the line br bbls, some outshine others.
Get some surveyor tape and about 4-5 wooden dowels or coat hangers for 100 yards. Start there. Then go through the gun. The do load workup. Don't rely on any factory ammo, although the fed prem 77gr stuff, I've had good luck with...but that still means zilch. Forget factory until you see what the gun can do with good loads. For that matter, forget tuners too, until you have an idea about the gun, even if a tuner might fix it. At this point, I lean toward thinking you have more than just tuning issues but you can figure that out on your own and would be well served in doing so before spending any money on that bbl/rifle.
It hopefully will turn out good but you're not helping yourself on here fighting what's being offered until you rule some of those things out and if the bbl is a 1-2moa bbl, how ya gonna do that without tuning a load over some sort of flags? Frankly, you just can't. Eliminate one thing at a time and methodically go through the process of improving the gun, the load and yourself, without getting upset at people who have been there before and have an idea what to expect. Hopefully, you prove them wrong but it's better to prove them right than to continue wasting time and components pissing up a rope, too.
I could tell you in 20 rounds if that gun is worth spending any money on or not but if it looks like a gun problem, then you start with the easy and cheapest stuff first and go from there. The problem here is that you're not there yet but keep telling people that maybe are, how wrong they are. You're not there yet or we wouldn't be having this discussion.
Rather than a pissing match, this should be a thread where two extremes can come to some understanding, that the platforn as well as factory ammo greatly hurt the potential but that it should be improvable over the 1.5-2 moa stuff. Therein lies a problem if the owner doesn't or isn't willing to do things that might make the difference. If the issue is tune, a tuner will correct that. If it's something else, they won't, but if it's a combination, you need to find the weak link before doing anything else, particularly if you don't want to throw money at it. Smart money is to do the simple things first, like tune the load and go over the gun as well as letting someone else shoot it to see if it shoots the same for them. No one has mentioned wind flags so I will...The wind has been blowing pretty hard here for the last couple of weeks or so. No flags, no chance of knowing what's going on, so stop and get flags or just wait for better conditions to shoot in.
Just be methodical and don't assume it's not wind, or at least a lot of it. Wind is the most common issue for a ton of people when they start looking for smaller groups. Don't tell me the wind wasn't blowing unless you have flags because you can't know that! The best you can do is shoot in what you think are good conditions and pray because you really have very little else to go on without them. Nobody wants to hear it but flags are the single most important tool in shooting small, consistently, period.
As others have said, your bbl is of avg AR quality. They make a really good one at times but you have to consider yours is average until you know better. Group shapes tell expericed shooters more than I can describe in a post. You just have to know what to look for.
I'll help you with a tuner but the most common mistake with them is moving them randomly or too far at a time and different tuners have different values so it's not a one size fits all tutorial.
I don't see this going anywhere until you listen to some good advice but at the same time, I think you are ahead of some of the advice given..I think.
Don't assume anything. Just because you have a stag and your buddy's shoots ok means nothing. Even amongst top of the line br bbls, some outshine others.
Get some surveyor tape and about 4-5 wooden dowels or coat hangers for 100 yards. Start there. Then go through the gun. The do load workup. Don't rely on any factory ammo, although the fed prem 77gr stuff, I've had good luck with...but that still means zilch. Forget factory until you see what the gun can do with good loads. For that matter, forget tuners too, until you have an idea about the gun, even if a tuner might fix it. At this point, I lean toward thinking you have more than just tuning issues but you can figure that out on your own and would be well served in doing so before spending any money on that bbl/rifle.
It hopefully will turn out good but you're not helping yourself on here fighting what's being offered until you rule some of those things out and if the bbl is a 1-2moa bbl, how ya gonna do that without tuning a load over some sort of flags? Frankly, you just can't. Eliminate one thing at a time and methodically go through the process of improving the gun, the load and yourself, without getting upset at people who have been there before and have an idea what to expect. Hopefully, you prove them wrong but it's better to prove them right than to continue wasting time and components pissing up a rope, too.
I could tell you in 20 rounds if that gun is worth spending any money on or not but if it looks like a gun problem, then you start with the easy and cheapest stuff first and go from there. The problem here is that you're not there yet but keep telling people that maybe are, how wrong they are. You're not there yet or we wouldn't be having this discussion.
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Who? What folks? Where are these people? Are they declaring something, or are they offering proof and examples?
What EXACTLY does "premium quality" mean? Not trying to be argumentative, but it's an important point....
Premium quality has different meanings for different shooters and different disciplines.
I'm pretty up on my accurate AR's, being a service rifle competitor (Distinguished, HM mid-range prone, all that good stuff), and I've never heard of anyone using a BA barrel for competition (outside of 3-gun, USPSA, etc). Maybe they are the new hot ticket, but the tried and true brands/smiths are White Oak, Compass Lake, Satern, and maybe Criterion, using blanks from Kreiger, Bartlein, Shilen, Wilson, Satern, Criterion, and Green Mountain. I'd be willing to bet 97% of what you'll see on the line at Camp Perry comes from one of those manufacturers, and probably 99% of shooters in the top 100. If "premium quality" is defined as accuracy and reliability, the top AR shooters in the country in terms of accuracy are a pretty good endorsement.
I'm guessing between this cheap tuner you bought and a pile of ammo you've shot through your barrel, you could have bought a White Oak 20" service rifle barrel for $230 and eliminated that variable from the equation.
You asked for advice...people are offering it.
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Mic dropped
LVLAaron
Gold $$ Contributor
Join any facebook group (if they still exist) or AR specific forum/sub-forum and you'll find 100 guys all saying BA are great barrels. They're cheap and they work. Keep in mind who that audience is. It's not guys like you shooting actual round targets for score.
My go-to barrel is made by Rosco... You've probably never heard of them, but it's what I keep in my SHTF rifle and I trust my life with it. Would I bring one to a high power match? Never.
Lone Hunter
Silver $$ Contributor
I’ve read this thread through. Wasted my time with op’s post because AP and BA are the best. That’s why he is shooting them. Y’all don’t get it. He knows what is best and even though you have given him good advice he is continually going to do what he wants and tell you that you are wrong AND ignore all advice given to him. Sounds and smells like a TROLL to me. If I ask for advice, and he has been given good advice and continues to ignore good advice, then what’s the reason to ask for advice if you are going to ignore said advice. Good Luck OP, you might want to consider taking some of the advice instead of arguing…. JMO..
The troll has left the dungeon. Do a quick user-thread search. You’re welcome.
Nope still here!
Yet another Sniper's Hide Reject. You all have been trolled, caught and paid the toll. Now I'm sucked into yet another worthless thread started by someone who obviously knows his stuff better than we do.Nope still here!
Warren Dean
Team Savage F-TR
Hey, moderators...how about killing this thread? It has gotten pretty ridiculous and seems a waste of bandwidth.
Aww!!! ;(
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