Tune a fish, tune a piano but tune a rifle???

[natdscott]

Thor, you do have some guys here that are making..or have STARTED down the path of helping you make what might be some critical improvements to your setup.

You come across as somewhat unwilling to consider that something actually needs to change.

Barrels, for example. You may have spent 3k in barrels, without having ever bought a good one.

Not our problem.

You asked us for help, not for confirmation of what you thought would work.

 

[Thor357]

Here's what my AR does in competition. It's a WOA upper with a Wilson bbl on a custom billet lower high end trigger. I usually shoot without a spotter. So poor wind calls on my part are usually the ones that our out of the group and 500 yds it's sometimes hard to see bullet holes. That 200 yd 48 pt target is what happens when you get excited and shoot too fast. Shots 1&2 10x shots 3&4 9's stop take a breather and 5th shot 10. My stupid fault. It's very consistent rifle, no tuner.

Very nice! Glad your rifle works well for you.

 

[Thor357]

Thor, you do have some guys here that are making..or have STARTED down the path of helping you make what might be some critical improvements to your setup.

You come across as somewhat unwilling to consider that something actually needs to change.

Barrels, for example. You may have spent 3k in barrels, without having ever bought a good one.

Not our problem.

You asked us for help, not for confirmation of what you thought would work.

The barrels are from Aero Precision, Applied Ballistics and Colt.
I'm resistant to folks assuming I have a POS AR15 with POS components. I very well may have inferior components but I am done spending any more money than necessary. The components I have are going to have to do. Consistency is the real issue. My AR shoots great for a number of rounds and then goes bonkers.
I asked if tuners work and how to use them.
And I do appreciate those that are actually providing sound advice but to those that assume my rifle is a POS, I will punch back. Momma dinn't raise no snowflake and pop made sure o' that!

 

[Drop Port]

That is on the list of things to potentially try, just not yet.

The best barrel made wont shoot if the upper and lower don't lock up. Grab the upper and lower and flex it if there is any movement side to side or up and down that is where rounds are going. Some luck out while building some add material and tight fit. As stated it takes a lot of everything being correct to get consistent groups out of an AR. Not saying yours is loose but definitely a symptom of what you are describing.

 

[Thor357]

The best barrel made wont shoot if the upper and lower don't lock up. Grab the upper and lower and flex it if there is any movement side to side or up and down that is where rounds are going. Some luck out while building some add material and tight fit. As stated it takes a lot of everything being correct to get consistent groups out of an AR. Not saying yours is loose but definitely a symptom of what you are describing.

I've heard about loose barrels and it's been checked. Everything's nice and tight...supposedly.
However, one man's "tight" is another man's "loose" so you may be on to something.
And I agree, a lot of things need to be right in order for things to work right. It seems
the trick is finding out what's not right without selling my other kidney to make it right.
I'll get it rechecked by another "pro".
Thanks.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Tuners help with tuning issues, so yes, they work and yes, they work on AR's but AR's have their own issues that make them more of a challenge to shoot well. Not that they can't shoot well, though.

Factory ammo has its own issues as well. And yes, tuners can help with getting whatever potential factory ammo has, in your particular gun.

So to answer your question, yes they work and they can very well help with factory ammo. You do have to realize that the ammo and rifle have their own limitations but strictly from a tuning perspective, they work the same way on an AR as they do on a bolt gun, but with more variables. I'm working on a tuner specifically geared toward AR's and at the same time, with tuning factory ammo to its potential, but it'll be a while before they are ready.

 

[rebeltex]

Read through this post, I answer that question.

Thor,
My comment wasn't directed at you but rather toward the "experts" saying an AR couldn't be accurate.
Tuners work by the way even on an AR.

 

[Coyotefurharvester]

From my experience the support(type of bags,bipod) and shooting technique are very important to consistent and small groups with AR's. If I'm shooting a bolt gun and grab one of my AR's and don't reset the bags the group's open up.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

From my experience the support(type of bags,bipod) and shooting technique are very important to consistent and small groups with AR's. If I'm shooting a bolt gun and grab one of my AR's and don't reset the bags the group's open up.

I think they do best with the front rest near the receiver, as long as it's not jumping around. It puts less upward pressure on the bbl joint that way. Same with some break open single shots, like the TC's. Ultimately, you just do what works best for you but that's the logic anyway.

 

[Thor357]

Thor,
My comment wasn't directed at you but rather toward the "experts" saying an AR couldn't be accurate.
Tuners work by the way even on an AR.

Ah, okay. sorry if I came across as bitchy.

 

[Thor357]

Tuners help with tuning issues, so yes, they work and yes, they work on AR's but AR's have their own issues that make them more of a challenge to shoot well. Not that they can't shoot well, though.

Factory ammo has its own issues as well. And yes, tuners can help with getting whatever potential factory ammo has, in your particular gun.

So to answer your question, yes they work and they can very well help with factory ammo. You do have to realize that the ammo and rifle have their own limitations but strictly from a tuning perspective, they work the same way on an AR as they do on a bolt gun, but with more variables. I'm working on a tuner specifically geared toward AR's and at the same time, with tuning factory ammo to its potential, but it'll be a while before they are ready.

Cool!! Thanks for your response, very helpful.

 

[Thor357]

From my experience the support(type of bags,bipod) and shooting technique are very important to consistent and small groups with AR's. If I'm shooting a bolt gun and grab one of my AR's and don't reset the bags the group's open up.

I agree, an AR is a completely different animal and because of that, it very well be me that is the source of my troubles. Things have gotten better because I have tried different bags/bipods and techniques. I've even changed stocks around. The solid A2 style stock seemed to help a bit. I've upgraded the trigger and put in a high grade BCG as well. All have helped but I'm still frustrated with inconsistency.
As one fellow said back a page or 2, my expectations may need to be lowered, 1-2 MOA ain't bad but I see folks with nuthin' fancy AR's shooting better...sometimes.

 

[Thor357]

I think they do best with the front rest near the receiver, as long as it's not jumping around. It puts less upward pressure on the bbl joint that way. Same with some break open single shots, like the TC's. Ultimately, you just do what works best for you but that's the logic anyway.

Hmmm....interesting. I put my bipods as far out on the handguard as they'll go. My reasoning is it provides better stability. Perhaps I'm totally wrong?
My rifle doesn't really jump around, it pushes back mostly.

 

[Thor357]

Tuners help with tuning issues, so yes, they work and yes, they work on AR's but AR's have their own issues that make them more of a challenge to shoot well. Not that they can't shoot well, though.

Factory ammo has its own issues as well. And yes, tuners can help with getting whatever potential factory ammo has, in your particular gun.

So to answer your question, yes they work and they can very well help with factory ammo. You do have to realize that the ammo and rifle have their own limitations but strictly from a tuning perspective, they work the same way on an AR as they do on a bolt gun, but with more variables. I'm working on a tuner specifically geared toward AR's and at the same time, with tuning factory ammo to its potential, but it'll be a while before they are ready.

Thumbs up!!!
( I'm too cheap to upgrade!!! )

 

[ridgeway]

Naive? How presumptuous.
The scope is not the issue, trust me.
A quality mil-spec AR with some note worthy up grades.

Have you checked it? How do you know? Do you have or access to a checker? It's very easy to be in denial because you paid lots of money for it. IMO, it's either barrel, load or scope.

 

[Thor357]

Have you checked it? How do you know? Do you have or access to a checker? It's very easy to be in denial because you paid lots of money for it. IMO, it's either barrel, load or scope.

Yes, it's been checked. It's dead nuts on. I and my gunsmith have checked it.
You forgot the idiot pulling the trigger!!!

 

[ridgeway]

Yes, it's been checked. It's dead nuts on. I and my gunsmith have checked it.
You forgot the idiot pulling the trigger!!!

Just curious, how was it checked?

 

[natdscott]

Glue the barrel in.

 

[drop_point]

Glue the barrel in.

I've bedded a few barrels and that is one of the wonder-fixes for ARs that really seems to help.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

I've bedded a few barrels and that is one of the wonder-fixes for ARs that really seems to help.

Yep, even blue loctite can work wonders at taking up space. 609 and it ain't movin. You could probably leave off the nut! This ain't rimfire but some rf smiths literally use it to just glue the bbl in on some actions....nothing else. Seems to work but I don't do them that way.