Too much glass for a .22?

[Luisyamaha]

This thread has gotten much more technical and complicated than I expected. It was intended to be a fairly simple try a higher magnification scope on a rifle and see if the group sizes improved one over the other. With the Leupold (6-18X40mm) I managed to get .365" for five, 5-shot groups at 50 yds. That was a good representative number over a long time. Not the best ever group, not even the best ever five group average, but a good number I could reasonably expect on a good day. Tried on a Minox 6-30X56mm and expected to do better. Last attempt, yesterday, for ten 5-shot groups was .an average of .533". Disappointed? Yes. If I cherry pick and count ONLY the best 5 groups out of those ten, then the average is .335". Better than with the Leupold, yes, but, considering I cherry picked the best 5 groups only, I'm not happy. I'm going to try it once or twice more, but with those numbers I'm inclined to go back to the Leupold. BTW, it may have been mentioned already, but this is with a CZ-455, heavy barrel, whose only mod is a YoDave(?) trigger spring kit.

As a lot has been written offering advice, but also making assumptions of facts-not-stated, I'll provide a bit more info about my shooting. I don't use flags, I shoot off a bench with a Harris bipod and a Protektor rear leather bag. Sit on a three-legged stool, and the bench is set in concrete, with a wooden top. Very sturdy, doesn't move. I shoot at fluorescent dots (.5") on a white background. And I'm shooting for group size only not any kind of score. Basically I'm shooting against myself. The range faces North (one shoots toward the North) and thre is usually little (2-3 mph) from either 12 o'clock or 6 o'clock. Calm, I would call it. It just some alone fun time for me. No competition whatsoever, although, at a long ago time and a place far away I used to shoot benchrest.

So, I appreciate all the advice, even if some didn't apply to my situation. But the care to answer my post is appreciated. Always learned something.

I'm shooting benchrest ELEY ammo. Best I can get. But Cheap Aguila gives me .700"-ish groups very consistently.

Going to shoot it some more before deciding.

Wish I could afford a March!?!?

Thanks all,


Luisyamaha

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

This thread has gotten much more technical and complicated than I expected. It was intended to be a fairly simple try a higher magnification scope on a rifle and see if the group sizes improved one over the other. With the Leupold (6-18X40mm) I managed to get .365" for five, 5-shot groups at 50 yds. That was a good representative number over a long time. Not the best ever group, not even the best ever five group average, but a good number I could reasonably expect on a good day. Tried on a Minox 6-30X56mm and expected to do better. Last attempt, yesterday, for ten 5-shot groups was .an average of .533". Disappointed? Yes. If I cherry pick and count ONLY the best 5 groups out of those ten, then the average is .335". Better than with the Leupold, yes, but, considering I cherry picked the best 5 groups only, I'm not happy. I'm going to try it once or twice more, but with those numbers I'm inclined to go back to the Leupold. BTW, it may have been mentioned already, but this is with a CZ-455, heavy barrel, whose only mod is a YoDave(?) trigger spring kit.

As a lot has been written offering advice, but also making assumptions of facts-not-stated, I'll provide a bit more info about my shooting. I don't use flags, I shoot off a bench with a Harris bipod and a Protektor rear leather bag. Sit on a three-legged stool, and the bench is set in concrete, with a wooden top. Very sturdy, doesn't move. I shoot at fluorescent dots (.5") on a white background. And I'm shooting for group size only not any kind of score. Basically I'm shooting against myself. The range faces North (one shoots toward the North) and thre is usually little (2-3 mph) from either 12 o'clock or 6 o'clock. Calm, I would call it. It just some alone fun time for me. No competition whatsoever, although, at a long ago time and a place far away I used to shoot benchrest.

So, I appreciate all the advice, even if some didn't apply to my situation. But the care to answer my post is appreciated. Always learned something.

I'm shooting benchrest ELEY ammo. Best I can get. But Cheap Aguila gives me .700"-ish groups very consistently.

Going to shoot it some more before deciding.

Wish I could afford a March!?!?

Thanks all,


Luisyamaha

If you are serious at all about improving your shooting...get some flags. Even surveyor tape on coat hanger wire is wayyy better than nothing.

No problem, if you're happy where you are but run the numbers through a ballistics program that accounts for wind values and you'll see that you are already below average in terms of group size under AVERAGE conditions without consideration for wind. You get to a certain point where there is no other place more valuable than wind value and your state3d group sizes put you in that place. So, either use something to read wind or continue to get inconsistent results, where you are. BTW, that's a compliment to your shooting. Not the other way around. There are many, many people who either they or their equipment will alway hold them back from seeing the value of flags. You are there already, based on your stated group sizes alone. Just run the numbers for yourself.

Most anyone who is serious about accuracy considers shooting without some kind of flags, a waste of time, money and ammo.

 

[Evan]

I’m just going to repeat the advice you’ve been given. At the group sizes you’re shooting, you will have to adopt wind flags to consistently shoot smaller. There is no “feeling” the subtle changes along the range that will push a bullet a tenth of an inch on the target.

 

[dutch14]

I wish I had the skill and equipment that you have. I'm from Indiana, we have a windy spring and fall with the hot, still, dry, dog days of summer between. Last summer I shot a number of averages in the .8,.9 range at 50 yds. Spring and fall winds opened those groups to 1.022 or so. The range I shoot on is surrounded by woods. Yes, I kept records of the wind velocity and direction of the wind.

 

[Luisyamaha]

Well, yesterday was the last chance for the Minox. Five 5-shot groups averaged .532" (very consistent with previous groups). Am going back to the Leupold. Changed it back over this morning.

The whole post was to whether upping the magnification from 18X to 30X would provide better (smaller)
groups. On this rifle, with this shooter, and with these particular two scopes, NO it didn't! Any time I had ever increased the magnification I had had improvements in group size. Alas, this was not the case this time. For whatever reason.

All other suggestions to improve my shooting are duly noted and some will be tried. With the Leupold VXII 6-18X40mm.

Thanks to all,
Luisyamaha

 

[Luisyamaha]

Shooting with the Leupold I have gone back to sub .5" groups. .490" to be exact. Not back yet to the .365" I had achieved before, but still better than the .533" best I had managed with the 30X Minox. I hope with warmer weather I'll manage .360"s again. Even .375" would be acceptable. Shivering doesn't help! But I'm happy, all is well with the world again.
I've sold the Minox. Bought dear, sold cheap. But still better than having it sit there for another 12 years!

Luisyamaha

 

[Gard72977]

I have never seen too much glass!

ZCO on my Vudoo

 

[Luisyamaha]

Neither had I, but this combination didn't seem to work.

Luisyamaha