The most accurate cartridge.

[LHSmith]

Longfeather- If you want to hang your hat on accuracy meaning to be the smallest group ever shot in registered comp (100 yards).....then the .222 wins.
If your idea of accuracy is shooting the smallest group average (aggregate throughout a days competition) CONSISTENTLY in registered comp (100 -300 yds) then the 6 PPC wins hands down. The .222 reigned for ~20 years, the 6 PPC has reigned for ~40 straight years.
Consider that the wind can blow a bullet into a group as well as out......I'll take a rifle that will AGG anytime vs. a "one group wonder"
Also, I will venture to say that .009 group is probably the only record that the 6 PPC does not hold in 100, 200, and 300 yard group competition.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Longfeather- If you want to hang your hat on accuracy meaning to be the smallest group ever shot in registered comp (100 yards).....then the .222 wins.
If your idea of accuracy is shooting the smallest group average (aggregate throughout a days competition) CONSISTENTLY in registered comp (100 -300 yds) then the 6 PPC wins hands down. The .222 reigned for ~20 years, the 6 PPC has reigned for ~40 straight years.
Consider that the wind can blow a bullet into a group as well as out......I'll take a rifle that will AGG anytime vs. a "one group wonder"

Me too!

 

[Frankr]

To some of our most accurate friends....I apparently run in a different shooters circle. Shooting dimes at 100 with factory ammo and gun=.100 5 shot group@100 yds, quarters at 200=.250 5 shot group@200 yds. Conversely, custom gun "point blank" BR 5 shot groups: dimes at 100= .010@100yds and quarters at 200=.025@200yds. I'm guessing by some of the comments received, some may have thought dimes and quarters had something to do with US currency? These wallet groups have been accomplished using the "triple deuce". Thanks to Mike from gunsandgunsmithing on his response "the .222 will have always shot the smallest group ever in a registered match...a .009" five shot group. With that said of the .222 I'd have to agree on the 6ppc for 300 yds and beyond. No disrespect to anyone intended.

longfether a dime is aprox .750 in dia. so a dime size group at 100 yrd is 1/2" group . very bad for a 6ppc.
now dime groups at 200 yrds and quarter size or under at 300 yrd is more a 6ppc. THAT IS A FACT!

while i agree the 222 is a great one in a factory rifle. it will not compete well againest a ppc cartridge. that has been proven only the 6BR is capable close very close second.

we strive for bullet hole size groups out of a custom built 6ppc at 100 yrds.

 

[CJ6]

And in time, the 30BR will topple the 6PPC ;D

I've heard some of the boys are tooling up for the 22 PPC.100 short because the new LT-32 powder.

 

[Frankr]

cj6 i heard it works well in the FL 22ppc.

Here is a visual aid for you.
5 shots out of my 6ppc at 100 yards under adverse match conditions.
I think that picture speeks for it self.

 

[Longfeather]

cj6 i heard it works well in the FL 22ppc.

Here is a visual aid for you.
5 shots out of my 6ppc at 100 yards under adverse match conditions.
I think that picture speeks for it self.

FJIM, (Dime: .100) (Quarter: .250) get it? Nothing to do with currency, everything to do with decimal equivalent. PS: You're getting close to shooting "dime" (meaning .100) groups at .126. Nice shooting!

 

[Frankr]

longfeather ok got it..

Thank's. i'm ready for may..

 

[Longfeather]

longfeather ok got it..

Thank's. i'm ready for may..

I'm with ya there!

 

[bheadboy]

all good comments, about the caliber, question, WHO SHOT THE.009 GROUP.

BOB

 

[Frankr]

pat mcmillian in 1973 . with mcmillian's own made barrel. i dont know what bullet he was shooting?
as someone stated his own primer mix? first time i heard that.
i read somewhere that mcmillian still has the rifle in their office or company somewhere..I'd like to take it out at see how it shoot's..lol..

 

[REastman]

And in time, the 30BR will topple the 6PPC ;D

The most accurate cartridge at what? It was kind of comical watching one of my friends shoot a 30BR at a 300-600 yard mid range match in 2012. The path of the bullet at 600 was making us laugh quite hard. Of course my 6 Dasher got it's butt kicked by the 30 BR's at a 100 yard match.

 

[BigDMT]

all good comments, about the caliber, question, WHO SHOT THE.009 GROUP.

BOB

If you read the whole thread you would have found the answer. Well, I suppose all I said was one of the McMillan boys. Like "FJIM" stated, it was Pat McMillan to be specific.

 

[Longfeather]

all good comments, about the caliber, question, WHO SHOT THE.009 GROUP.

BOB

Hey BOB! Glad you asked:
I first became aware of the McMillans about 35 years ago when reading about a group shot by Mac in an NBRSA-sanctioned match at the Skunk Creek rifle range near Phoenix. The date was September 23, 1973, (Mac’s 59th birthday) and he was shooting a 10.5-pound Light Varmint class rifle in .222 Remington. It was just about an all-McMillan rifle. Mac had built the action, and brother Pat had designed it. The rifle also had a barrel made by Pat and a fiberglass stock built by brother Gale. It wore a Leupold 12X scope that had been bumped to 24X by Wally Siebert. The dies used by Mac to make his 50-grain bullets from J4 jackets were also made by Pat. Mac’s competition load consisted of Remington cases, 23.5 grains of Hodgdon BL-C (Lot No. 1), and a prototype primer that would soon thereafter be introduced by CCI as the BR-4.

A five-shot group fired by Mac during that 100-yard event was measured by match officials with a dial caliper modified by the addition of a clear plexiglass plate containing a .22-caliber reticle. All five of his shots fit inside the reticle for an incredible group-size measurement of 0.000 inch. For the first time in recorded history, the perfect group had been shot!

Shortly thereafter, the group was measured with a special 60X microscope capable of accuracy to 0.0001 inch, and it still came out at 0.000 inch. The target was then mailed around to seven members of the NBRSA records committee (who each measured it with less sophisticated instruments), and they came up with an average measurement of 0.009 inch. Other shooters who were there when Mac shot the match were convinced that it was indeed the perfect group and were disappointed to see it grow in size a bit when officially measured, but it all turned out to be moot since as far as I know, the record continues to stand today as the smallest five-shot group ever fired in registered benchrest competition.

Legacy of the Perfect Score (Shooting Times)

by Layne Simpson•September 23, 2010

 

[TheSnake]

I am sure this has been asked a million times with the "controversy" of the score but is it common practice to have a target be sent around for verification after the official score at the match? What ashame the score didn't stick regardless of what round it was.

 

[LHSmith]

....and Mac did not even place well that day........so what shooter/ rifle combination was the most ACCURATE for that particular match?

 

[Longfeather]

Longfeather- If you want to hang your hat on accuracy meaning to be the smallest group ever shot in registered comp (100 yards).....then the .222 wins.
If your idea of accuracy is shooting the smallest group average (aggregate throughout a days competition) CONSISTENTLY in registered comp (100 -300 yds) then the 6 PPC wins hands down. The .222 reigned for ~20 years, the 6 PPC has reigned for ~40 straight years.
Consider that the wind can blow a bullet into a group as well as out......I'll take a rifle that will AGG anytime vs. a "one group wonder"
Also, I will venture to say that .009 group is probably the only record that the 6 PPC does not hold in 100, 200, and 300 yard group competition.

LH,
I applaud Louis Palmisano and Ferris Pindell for the development of the 6ppc. They did it because like all of us they are striving for perfection. Our round table group has set its sites on the best cartridge (6ppc) for short range BR (200 to 300) (We're leaving the 100 yd record to Mac McMillan). Our interest is in "one hole wonders" rather than "one group wonders" as you so eloquently put it. We aren't looking for competition wins...we're looking for the perfect cartridge. With that said, prepare for the next best short range cartridge. We're considering calling it the "Round Table True 6" or "RTT6". Custom .2365 dia 78gr points using a 6X47 Swiss Match necked. We were having trouble with the powder until the powder gods blessed us with LT-32. We're one holing at 200 under controlled conditions off the bond receiver.

 

[FergusBailey]

I am sure this has been asked a million times with the "controversy" of the score but is it common practice to have a target be sent around for verification after the official score at the match? What ashame the score didn't stick regardless of what round it was.

Yes. That has been standard practice under all BR sanctioning bodies that I am aware of. Any potential record needs to be independently verified. Under some rules there is a body or measurer that verifies records, under other rules it is a required number of independent measurers to verify the record. This helps to standardise the tools and approach to measuring, as there can be significant variation in tools and experience across different ranges.

We have certainly seen cases in the past where a range scored record did not hold up to subsequent validation.

 

[bheadboy]

Bigdmt i have read the hole article and now thanks to Longfeather i know which Mac did the shooting

Bob

 

[LHSmith]

Our round table group has set its sites on the best cartridge (6ppc) for short range BR (200 to 300) (We're leaving the 100 yd record to Mac McMillan). Our interest is in "one hole wonders" rather than "one group wonders" as you so eloquently put it. We aren't looking for competition wins...we're looking for the perfect cartridge. With that said, prepare for the next best short range cartridge. We're considering calling it the "Round Table True 6" or "RTT6". Custom .2365 dia 78gr points using a 6X47 Swiss Match necked. We were having trouble with the powder until the powder gods blessed us with LT-32. We're one holing at 200 under controlled conditions off the bond receiver.

Is this kinda like fantasy football?
Perhaps you should get data from Remington, Sierra, and anyone else with a tunnel and universal receivers. All the current firearm competition has a human element which probably skews the data.

 

[JRS]

And for those who don't know: "Mac" was Millard McMillan. Millard was the very knowledgeable, exceptional, one in a million kind of gentleman who started the famed McMillan barrel making. He later turned the barrel making business over to Pat. Another point of interest with the McMillan barrels was the warranty. They stood behind their barrels 100%, unless you used abrasives such as JB. Using abrasive compounds such as JB would automatically void the warranty. They also did not recommend a break in procedure of one shot and clean, etc, etc. McMillan barrels set, broke, and re-set many records during the time they were produced.