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The best wind for testing groups.

Would a right or left wind be the best direction when testing for load development rather than a head or tail wind?
What is the worst wind to test in?
Thanks.
 
Hmm...

I guess it depends on what you are trying to achieve. If you are looking for what the rifle is capable of, dead calm, then steady right or left wind in that order.

If you are looking for how the rifle will shoot in conditions, shoot in as many as you can and take copious notes.
 
If I have to deal with wind, I'd rather deal with a 90 degree full value wind that I can see, calculate and compensate for (most of the time anyway...), over a head or tailwind.

When I lose a shot in crosswinds, at least I know why, and can hopefully correct for it.

When I lose one in a head or tail wind, I'm usually not quite sure why, so it leaves you guessing on the next shot.

My buddy calls head/tail winds "sucker conditions".
 
For me a 45' angle condition is the worst because it is the most difficult to read the flags as you must pay attention to both vane and tail. Easiest by far is 90' crosswind because it's easy to see the tail angles (wind speed) and the daisies readily show the wind angle (you only see them sideview and they almost disappear) . IME the problem with tail and headwinds are that it is rare to get that condition without it switching, ie. between 5:00 and 7:00 or 11:00 and 1:00- these are hard to see the subtle change in flags, and I usually find a slight change in angle from head or tail wind yields more dispersion than true crosswinds.
For competition, once you find a load that shoots decent, you must try that load in multiple conditions because some barrel/ load combinations favor a certain condition...i.e. shooting smaller in a left condition vs. right....sometimes the difference is pretty substantial.
 
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Consider this.

Using a 140 vld at 2950. 5MPH wind. 300 yards

A switch between 1 o-clock and 11 o-clock will move the bullet .8 moa ...about 2.4inches. An 11:30 to 12:30 is almost the same, but my app would not do 1/2 hours so I can't give exact numbers.

A switch from 2 o-clock to 3 o-clock moves the bullet .1 moa or about .3 inches. If it moves on to 4 o-clock it goes back to the same as it was at 2 o-clock.

It is fairly hard to judge a switch from 11:00 to 1:00 unless you have flags and are good at reading them. Missing a 2:00 to 3:00 switch is almost a non issue.


NEVER test in head or tail winds.
 
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First rule, put some flags out between you and the target. They don't have to be fancy, but you really need some way to see what is happening. If you have not tried this, when you do, you will find that the wind is not at all the same at different places going down the range. This is what makes making wind related decisions difficult.

Assuming that you have some way to actually see what the wind is doing. Shooting in a cross wind, or close to one relieves you of having to pay as much attention to small changes in angle, but you must pay close attention to firing all of your shots when the ribbon tells you that the velocity is the same as it was when you fired the other shots in the group. Conversely, when you are working near to a head or tail wind, differences in velocity are much less important than small differences in angle. The best advice that I can give you is to experiment with a known good load and rifle to see what takes place in different conditions. In any case, do not be suckered into shooting in a dead calm unless you have enough scope magnification to see if the mirage is boiling straight up. That condition is very likely to produce large vertical errors. What you really are looking for is a consistent light condition.
 
Overcast with a right left wind that is holding the flags at the same level! Every one is right about head wind and tail wind, also diagonal will get you vertical every time. But I love the overcast days the most.

Joe Salt
 
Generally in head/tail winds what has to be considered is that they're not possibly 'true 6 or 12 o/clock' but doing what's referred to as 'fish-tailing'! These can be azz-busters for certain! A steady wind from 9 or 3 o/clock is what I'd prefer!!
 
Supposedly a 7 o'clock wind is best, or maybe a 2 o'clock, but anything around 12 or 6 o'clock will ruin your day.
 
For my money, the ideal wind for load development is no wind. Failing that, whatever wind you work with should ideally be a steady wind from a consistent direction. You've also got to factor in the caliber of the load you're working with. A .204 vs a .308 will make a very big difference - regardless of the wind.
The terrain is another important element. Undulating plains can generate wind eddies (look up laws of fluid dynamics) that will drive you nuts trying to read winds at any given moment.
 
For my money, the ideal wind for load development is no wind. Failing that, whatever wind you work with should ideally be a steady wind from a consistent direction. You've also got to factor in the caliber of the load you're working with. A .204 vs a .308 will make a very big difference - regardless of the wind.
The terrain is another important element. Undulating plains can generate wind eddies (look up laws of fluid dynamics) that will drive you nuts trying to read winds at any given moment.
You should test in the winds your going to shoot in. Here in Florida our winter winds 11- 12- 1- Then we can get storms the wind 5-6--7. Summer winds are 5-6-7. I tune one gun for winter winds . But I can with a tuner adjust for both. Winter wind can blow as much as 35 MPH Fairly calm when you first start shooting they can change to 35 MPH. Glad I have a tuner.
Larry
 
Best wind is no wind. But there is hardly ever "no wind", theres wind, its just light enough you cant see it, detect it, or feel it... Its my own personal sport i guess, i call it "practice sniping". I shoot long range human sillahuette targets, I dont use flags, i use my senses and study conditions before each shot, then choose when to fire when conditions line up... "no wind" is hands down best for me, but if i had to choose wind, any direction except 12 and 6, and 12 mph wind or below... a constant wind is way easier than a wind that slows and speeds up, "gusts of winds". 15mph wind it gets rough, more than 15 and i save my ammo..

When testing loads, "no wind"... less effects on the bullet to deal with...
 
Here is what Mike Ratigan wrote in his book "Extreme Rifle Accuracy" in the "wind flag use" chapter describing "Fundamentals": I left calm or what looks like calm for last. Most top competitors hate this; an absence of flag movement will often cause stupid shoots that go places for no apparent reason ....(It) can be one of the trickiest conditions to shoot because of slow moving mirage. Mirage causes apparent displacement of the target- the target is not where you see it through your scope. The mirage effect can be so slow the target will appear to be stable when it is actually moving. Don't be fooled, when the flag tails are hanging, air is in motion, you just can't see it."
Tony Boyer, he best SR BR shooter on the planet regards shooting in dead calm as an absolute waste of time, barrel life and components.
Once I began shooting SR BR competition 15 years ago, I began to realize there are many things in shooting for accuracy that are counter-intuitive and why I was never able to repeat shooting small groups with regularity prior to BR.
It is easy to see slow moving mirage with a high magnification scope (36x and up) by setting your rifle in a solid rest, sighted on a bull and without touching the set-up noting the POA shifting with-in a few moments.
 
I see guys testing all the time, where they wait till the evening when the conditions die. When the matches are they usually don't win because there now is winds. You need to test in winds. There are loads that shoot better in conditions. When a relay is fairly calm they shoot good. But the records and best groups I ever seen shot were shot in conditions. Now this is long range 1000 yard BR. It might be different for shorter range. I like to test in conditions close to what it will be at match. Matt
 
Here is what Mike Ratigan wrote in his book "Extreme Rifle Accuracy" in the "wind flag use" chapter describing "Fundamentals": I left calm or what looks like calm for last. Most top competitors hate this; an absence of flag movement will often cause stupid shoots that go places for no apparent reason ....(It) can be one of the trickiest conditions to shoot because of slow moving mirage. Mirage causes apparent displacement of the target- the target is not where you see it through your scope. The mirage effect can be so slow the target will appear to be stable when it is actually moving. Don't be fooled, when the flag tails are hanging, air is in motion, you just can't see it."
Tony Boyer, he best SR BR shooter on the planet regards shooting in dead calm as an absolute waste of time, barrel life and components.
Once I began shooting SR BR competition 15 years ago, I began to realize there are many things in shooting for accuracy that are counter-intuitive and why I was never able to repeat shooting small groups with regularity prior to BR.
It is easy to see slow moving mirage with a high magnification scope (36x and up) by setting your rifle in a solid rest, sighted on a bull and without touching the set-up noting the POA shifting with-in a few moments.
With all of the shooting ranges around, and empty buildings that use to house US manufacturing, that there are not more buildings used for shooting out of the elements. I read an article in precision shooting of a building that was vacant used in this manner.
Imagine, no wind, no mirage, no unpleasant direction from the sun, etc. The components saved in load developing would be astounding, let alone time saving. It sounds simple. I guess it isn't.
 
With all of the shooting ranges around, and empty buildings that use to house US manufacturing, that there are not more buildings used for shooting out of the elements. I read an article in precision shooting of a building that was vacant used in this manner.
Imagine, no wind, no mirage, no unpleasant direction from the sun, etc. The components saved in load developing would be astounding, let alone time saving. It sounds simple. I guess it isn't.
A lot of rimfire comp is shot in buildings....but shooting inside buildings has it's own nuances to overcome. There are still air currents due to temp. differentials. Even shooting tunnels need fans to address mirage issues.
Furthermore, you are missing the bigger point.... as Matt said-you ABSOLUTELY MUST test loads in the same conditions you anticipate to compete in. A load tuned for benign conditions will ONLY be accurate for those exact conditions....unless you have a very exceptional barrel.
AFAIK, there is no venue in the Benchrest or F-Class where one can expect benign conditions throughout the course of the match.
 
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Shot some of my worst groups at Dublin (MGGOA) years ago on 1st relay in the "calm". I absolutely hate "calm" conditions. Shot some of my best targets in moderate conditions and made some real ear to ear grin shots in some terrible conditions. I prefer to see some wind, otherwise it's all a big lieo_O
 
Shot some of my worst groups at Dublin (MGGOA) years ago on 1st relay in the "calm". I absolutely hate "calm" conditions. Shot some of my best targets in moderate conditions and made some real ear to ear grin shots in some terrible conditions. I prefer to see some wind, otherwise it's all a big lieo_O




Plus 1 on that and the same for long range. shoot in the wind, as what Matt says is a fact. What condition you decide to shoot in make it the same…… jim
 

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