Reading Wind

[D Coots]

Was watching Tony shoot a group at 200 yards at the Super shoot a few years ago. He had 2 shots on the record target when a complete reversal came in. The original condition wouldn't come back. I watched him put the last 3 shots into the group for a big 3 or small 4. He didn't go to the sighter to do that. Books are ok,
but he didn't learn that from a book. After the
match I asked him how he did that. He pointed to his head and said to me "it's in the computer.". .....

 

[natdscott]

Think about this , What book do you think Tony Boyer read to get

Lee

@BartsBullets

Well shoot. You both may be right. No way for me to know, I guess.

But hey, just as long as I don't have 1,000 barrels worth of experience, and literal years of my life to spend sitting at a bench shooting the swirl to see what it do be, I reckon I'll just keep reading while I cannot shoot, making the time I DO have on the range more productive when I get it.

Nobody said that reading about shooting was better than actually shooting. If it seems like that's what I meant, then I assure you, it wasn't.

But the vast majority of the shooting population has a day job that is not shooting. That majority can usually find time to learn by reading and studying in some spaces of time/resources where going to the range to shoot is just not an option. By this logic, garandman is probably in that same boat.

 

[Shooter13]

I have seen it twice, both times the streamers were hanging dead down with out even a twitch. First time was during a match and lasted for maybe ten minutes, sounded like a machine gun match with everyone trying to run the condition. Second time was a day of practice lasted most of the session, sure is disheartening when you are off the ten ring and can't blame the wind.

Even when there is no wind...........there's wind. I've watched it hang limp for a few seconds then out of nowhere you pull the trigger and the wind moves in ;-)

 

[Shooter13]

You've *never* seen a 20 second span without wind? Even at 50 yards?

Really ?

I've never shot that close, I guess what I'm saying is there is always wind, may be very slight but it is there

"Smoke" ... interesting idea. Would prefer something non-toxic. The enviro-nazis are annoying, but I like to keep the green places green, too.

You don't have to start a fire to get "smoke" ;-)

 

[BartsBullets]

"Smoke" ... interesting idea. Would prefer something non-toxic. The enviro-nazis are annoying, but I like to keep the green places green, too.

Wouldn’t recommend it for a shoot, but for figuring out what’s going on when you think its dead calm, it works pretty good.

 

[BartsBullets]

@BartsBullets

Well shoot. You both may be right. No way for me to know, I guess.

But hey, just as long as I don't have 1,000 barrels worth of experience, and literal years of my life to spend sitting at a bench shooting the swirl to see what it do be, I reckon I'll just keep reading while I cannot shoot, making the time I DO have on the range more productive when I get it.

Nobody said that reading about shooting was better than actually shooting. If it seems like that's what I meant, then I assure you, it wasn't.

But the vast majority of the shooting population has a day job that is not shooting. That majority can usually find time to learn by reading and studying in some spaces of time/resources where going to the range to shoot is just not an option. By this logic, garandman is probably in that same boat.

Nothing wrong with trying to become better shooter by reading a book. But great shooters, become great through a lot practice, hard work.

Bart

 

[D Coots]

Wouldn’t recommend it for a shoot, but for figuring out what’s going on when you think its dead calm, it works pretty good.

Like Bart with what his smoke pots showed, watch out for dead calm. It will bite you at times. Later in the day at the house I just moved from, the wind would quit, nothing stirring at all. You might see a tail hanging out at the 8 oclock position. Now mind you, absolutely no wind, but the tail stayed there like it was frozen, not moving. I always put my stuff away about then.

 

[garandman]

I appreciate the warnings about "dead calm"

Though I regularly win matches and place in the top 3 during so called "dead calm"... Beating out guys with lots more experience than me and shooting anschuetz's and Coopers and sako's etc.

Granted they are only local club matches not nationally ranked competition, but it's good enough for me.

 

[Hi-NV Shooter]

@BartsBullets

Well shoot. You both may be right. No way for me to know, I guess.

But hey, just as long as I don't have 1,000 barrels worth of experience, and literal years of my life to spend sitting at a bench shooting the swirl to see what it do be, I reckon I'll just keep reading while I cannot shoot, making the time I DO have on the range more productive when I get it.

Nobody said that reading about shooting was better than actually shooting. If it seems like that's what I meant, then I assure you, it wasn't.

But the vast majority of the shooting population has a day job that is not shooting. That majority can usually find time to learn by reading and studying in some spaces of time/resources where going to the range to shoot is just not an option. By this logic, garandman is probably in that same boat.

The point I was trying to make was, a book and what it contains as far as wind reading, is basically based on past experiences and could make for some insight on what you could look for.
it is based on set models of again past experiences, however each time you shoot at the range it will be different and very rarely will what you read match what you actually see while shooting.to improve on a skill such as condition/wind reading you have to shoot and shoot a lot. just like those wind charts and roses books have pre-conceived models of how and when wind moves in certain directions it will affect a bullets path, if you spent an hour reading verses an hour shooting, my money is that time spent shooting would get better results.

Lee

 

[Dusty Stevens]

I have seen the biggest groups of the match shot in the no-wind conditions we call a “trigger pull”. Rachel’s glen was famous for trigger pulling contests and you could hear a lot of explicit lyrics up and down the line about 30 seconds in.

 

[Bamban]

The match truly enjoyed and learned a lot was when I shot in Blair Atholl during their Northern Scotland Championship. I was on a business trip in '98, borrowed a rifle from Charles Young and he provided the ammo.

I loved the format, we shot from 300 to 1000, 3 shooters on the mound. One shooting, one scoring, and the other getting ready. Target is exposed I think it was something like 45 seconds. You can't wait your condition, 45 seconds you don't shoot, target goes down, you get zip for score. That format will test your wind reading. Wish they introduce that full bore format in high power here, sling and F Class.

Luckily, I was able to shoot the rifle to verify NWZ the day before we travelled to Blair Atholl from East Kilbride.

That Musgrave rifle shot...

 

[STS]

The #1 zero wind condition is a unicorn (as in there ain't no such thing). Next time it looks dead calm set up a 70 pound rail gun at night and watch the dot walk around the target from the wind driven mirage. There is always some slow movement that I would call drift. It will move the bullet impact significantly.

 

[Ballisticboy]

In all the gun testing trials I went on, in several different places, at all times of the year in all the weather conditions you can imagine, I never once saw a zero wind condition. There have been times when you would swear blind standing outside that there was no wind but the instrumentation was telling you something different. How much effect it would have at most ranges of interest is debatable, I was always shooting at much longer ranges than most people will ever be interested in so any wind could be a problem.
Of course where I am is one of the windiest places around which may not have helped.

 

[natdscott]

The point I was trying to make was, a book and what it contains as far as wind reading, is basically based on past experiences and could make for some insight on what you could look for.
it is based on set models of again past experiences, however each time you shoot at the range it will be different and very rarely will what you read match what you actually see while shooting.to improve on a skill such as condition/wind reading you have to shoot and shoot a lot. just like those wind charts and roses books have pre-conceived models of how and when wind moves in certain directions it will affect a bullets path...

And the other side to that, as well-acknowledged, is that it is an extremely hard thing to put pen to paper and describe what you are doing that got you a string of mostly centered shots in bad conditions, where your fellow shooters are out the right and left. Like I said, it's almost describable as an instinct, if it didn't take so long to learn it.

That, and the usual roses and charts almost always over-correct.

Well...mine don't.

if you spent an hour reading verses an hour shooting, my money is that time spent shooting would get better results.

I 100% agree with you, after a person has either been taught, or read, a little of what to look for when staring at the open range. The rank beginner has no idea they need to be studying the seeds on the 900 yard line's grass, the mirage against the 600 yard flag pole, or just how fast the 45 and 15 yards daisies are spinning compared to the 35, much less look at topography to figure out why their elevations are all shot to hell.

I am at the point in my shooting career where no more amount of reading about wind will do a damn bit of good. I've read everything I can find, more than once, and all it does now is say the same things in anything "new" I pick up.

But I don't assume, on the whole of the internet, that everyone is at my skill level when they ask an open question. I try to read other answers, assume the student knows nothing, and fill in the blanks that have not yet been said by other posters. Sometimes, that casts me into a role of saying things that, while true, may disagree with some other's comments...and that's a comfortable place for me, if what I said might have helped a fellow shooter.

There's no doubt but that we all have to shoot more if we want to call wind better.

I'm pretty passable at it, by the general rifle shooting populace, but when I am shooting among the top 1%, as far as wind calls, I look a lot like the bottom 1% for the time being.

But you know what?


I have better things to spend my time on right now, and I do not owe, nor make, any apologies for that.


Good talkin to you,

-Nate

 

[garandman]

My Condition 1 & 2 (from my first post) targets:




Both Match winning targets ... one a 250/250 ... during mostly "zero wind" conditions. Hoping theses non-existent
conditions continue

 

[BartsBullets]

My Condition 1 & 2 (from my first post) targets:




Both Match winning targets ... one a 250/250 ... during mostly "zero wind" conditions. Hoping theses non-existent
conditions continue

View attachment 1135575 View attachment 1135576

All of us have had success in a trigger pull at one time or another. Its what most new guys live for because that’s what they tune and practice in. It’s also when a new guy has the best chance of doing well.

But occasionally when the flags aren’t moving, if you shoot long enough, you‘ll get a flyer that makes you say, ”What The Hell!”

This a 200 yard target my kid (I think he was 15) shot a few years back in a trigger pull. He had 4 shots into a little zero (at 200 yards) and one popped out. Still a good group However, If that shot would have went in, it would have been a record that stood for many years. It definitely made us say “What the Hell!”

 

[garandman]

@BartsBullets ... To be clear… I am often in the top 3 with frequent match wins ( 5-6 in the last 3 months of weekly matches ) for low/ no wind conditions. Those targets are just from this past Monday night. They are not a one Off.

Far as flyers go… I usually attribute that to my shooter mechanics error more than wind reading error In these low/ no wind conditions that I am talking about.

I suspect the major wind condition that causes "flyers" is the 1073 mile per hour wind at the muzzle, Together with the abysmally low ballistic coefficient of the 22 rim fire projectile.

Point being... my horribly wrong ideas and methods are achieving a decent amt of repeated success.

 

[hpshooter]

"You don’t believe in flags?"

Most certainly believe in them if you are shooting a discipline where they are legal. Good also to set up when you are practicing reading mirage. Comparing the flags to your interpretation of the mirage is interesting.

How about shooting a match with one big flag at the target line and NO sighters allowed, there are such things, trust your data.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

I guess it all comes down to the guys up and down the line with you. You only have to beat them. My father wins a lot of rimfire matches, by a long shot, shooting 250 17,18x. What would that end up getting him in a national championship?

 

[garandman]

I guess it all comes down to the guys up and down the line with you. You only have to beat them. My father wins a lot of rimfire matches, by a long shot, shooting 250 17,18x. What would that end up getting him in a national championship?

Right. 100%

If I ever do shoot a natty (doubtful) , I'll worry about that then. Right NOW.... I just want to know how to read wind above 3 mph better. I'm focused on *now* not what might (never) happen in the future. I'll worry about winning the national championship only AFTER I get alot better at reading wind now.

FWIW...I'm competetive with guys who place in state championships and regional matches.