Reading Wind

[garandman]

@garandman Advice given to me by Tony Boyer was just practice holding off. Let the conditions change and try holding to hit the same spot. If you miss so what. If you do it enough it becomes instinctive.

Bart

Thanx for that insight!

I've just started doing wind practice. I need lots more.

 

[USMCDOC]

@garandman Advice given to me by Tony Boyer was just practice holding off. Let the conditions change and try holding to hit the same spot. If you miss so what. If you do it enough it becomes instinctive.

Bart

 

[garandman]

My early on, general impression is that I "hold off" FAR too much. That a good hold for a 5 mph wind coming from 3' oclock is to have the scope dot at 3 o'clock right next to / touching the target dot.

Yes? No? Maybe?

 

[D Coots]

@garandman Advice given to me by Tony Boyer was just practice holding off. Let the conditions change and try holding to hit the same spot. If you miss so what. If you do it enough it becomes instinctive.

Bart

That's why Tony was able to finish his group without going to the sighter I spoke about in my post the top of page 3.

The first couple of years I competed I always used the same aiming spot and waited for my condition to return. I realized, for me, that holding as Bart speaks of, was a way for me to improve my game. So here I am still learning how to do it right.

 

[garandman]

That's why Tony was able to finish his group without going to the sighter I spoke about in my post the top of page 3.

The first couple of years I competed I always used the same aiming spot and waited for my condition to return. I realized, for me, that holding as Bart speaks of, was a way for me to improve my game. So here I am still learning how to do it right.

Well, be encouraged then.... I'm jus' startin' ta lurn...

 

[BartsBullets]

My early on, general impression is that I "hold off" FAR too much. That a good hold for a 5 mph wind coming from 3' oclock is to have the scope dot at 3 o'clock right next to / touching the target dot.

Yes? No? Maybe?

The only way to know is check your sighter target and see how much the bullet is moving. Usually a 3 o’clock wind (right to Left) the Bullet will get pushed to the left and a little up.

 

[garandman]

The only way to know is check your sighter target and see how much the bullet is moving. Usually a 3 o’clock wind (right to Left) the Bullet will get pushed to the left and a little up.

What I'm hearing you say is there's really no way to give a specific hold for a 5 mph wind (in this case a 22rf 40 gr Midas + 1073 fps velocity)

Is that correct?

To my thinking, that would be precisely true, but there would also be a most probable general hold to use as a starting point. I mean, there are general principles of physics involved here.

Am I wrong?

 

[Uthink Uknow]

Once I start a target I don’t like to stop for anything except cloud/no cloud that mirage/lack of mirage will kill me. To me, adjusting the scope once I start a target is a crap shoot.

 

[BartsBullets]

What I'm hearing you say is there's really no way to give a specific hold for a 5 mph wind (in this case a 22rf 40 gr Midas + 1073 fps velocity)

Is that correct?

To my thinking, that would be precisely true, but there would also be a most probable general hold to use as a starting point. I mean, there are general principles of physics involved here.

Am I wrong?

That is correct. There is a black and white answer that exists in theory but not in practice.

For example how do you know it’s a 5 mph wind setting at the bench. Is it the same exact wind for the entire distance. Depending on how warm or how cold it is the bullet will move different amounts.

I’ve shot years of short range benchrest. For any given day I have to test conditions on the sighter and see how far the bullet is moving. I’ve also done it enough, that when I’m in the groove I KNOW where to hold instinctively as I’m running a group.

Let’s look at it a little differently. What is your strategy when you shoot a match?

Are you inherently a picker? Or are you a runner?

Do you wait on the flags for the same exact condition to come back or do you tend to hold?

Beside a dead calm what is your favorite condition? Ideally for myself I like a straight crosswind. I want to catch it at its lowest point and as it picks up I’ll hold onto it.

What condition tends to hurt you the most? For me it’s a let off.

Some things to think about.

Bart

 

[mousegunner]

When I overhear the masters and HM say stuff like "that looks like 3 minutes" I look at flags and mirage and remember that for future reference. Sometimes I'll just ask and they're quick to let me know and teach me something. Never met anyone at a match that wasn't willing to help another shooter.

 

[D Coots]

Well, be encouraged then.... I'm jus' startin' ta lurn...

You know the Rome senario I'm sure.

 

[USMCDOC]

When I overhear the masters and HM say stuff like "that looks like 3 minutes" I look at flags and mirage and remember that for future reference. Sometimes I'll just ask and they're quick to let me know and teach me something. Never met anyone at a match that wasn't willing to help another shooter.

something like a quartering wind at 1030 at 20 mph at the 800 yard line with a palma rifle at Perry!

 

[Greyfox]

Very good thread considering the UBR match yesterday at Dry Branch Rifle Range in Dixon Springs TN. From mirage, to bright sunshine, to a few clouds with wind left, right, head, tail and all in between. Speeds varying from "0" to 15+ and all directions at once @ 200 yards. No condition was holding more than 15-20 seconds and misjudged shots would move 5" literally. Many held outside the scoring rings on one side and had the bullet impact at or near the "5" ring on the opposite side. If every match were like this I think I'd take up golf. BTW- Nobody figured it out. Worst scores of the season.

Rick

 

[garandman]

Very good thread considering the UBR match yesterday at Dry Branch Rifle Range in Dixon Springs TN. From mirage, to bright sunshine, to a few clouds with wind left, right, head, tail and all in between. Speeds varying from "0" to 15+ and all directions at once @ 200 yards. No condition was holding more than 15-20 seconds and misjudged shots would move 5" literally. Many held outside the scoring rings on one side and had the bullet impact at or near the "5" ring on the opposite side. If every match were like this I think I'd take up golf. BTW- Nobody figured it out. Worst scores of the season.

Rick

Using wind flags, or reading mirage / trees / grass etc judge the wind ?

 

[Greyfox]

Using wind flags, or reading mirage / trees / grass etc judge the wind ?

Wind flags. We were shooting on 15 benches and almost everyone has flags. There were probably 10-11 sets of flags. I use 5 for 100 and 8 for 200. That's a few more than the average which would be 5-6 at 200. For short range benchrest, grass, trees and such would be pretty much useless. Keep in mind also, that in score shooting you aren't looking for a 5 shot group, you are shooting at 6 individual bulls on a target. The ten ring on a .224 target is roughly 1" and the "X" is about .15, more or less. Usually keeping them in the 10 ring at 200 is doable with a few "x's" salted in, yesterday, not so much.

Rick

 

[mike a]

That is correct. There is a black and white answer that exists in theory but not in practice.

For example how do you know it’s a 5 mph wind setting at the bench. Is it the same exact wind for the entire distance. Depending on how warm or how cold it is the bullet will move different amounts.

I’ve shot years of short range benchrest. For any given day I have to test conditions on the sighter and see how far the bullet is moving. I’ve also done it enough, that when I’m in the groove I KNOW where to hold instinctively as I’m running a group.

Let’s look at it a little differently. What is your strategy when you shoot a match?

Are you inherently a picker? Or are you a runner?

Do you wait on the flags for the same exact condition to come back or do you tend to hold?

Beside a dead calm what is your favorite condition? Ideally for myself I like a straight crosswind. I want to catch it at its lowest point and as it picks up I’ll hold onto it.

What condition tends to hurt you the most? For me it’s a let off.

Some things to think about.

Bart

Let offs killed me this Saturday. 5 mph to near zero faster the you can say bobs your uncle. Seemed like the wind would stop so fast it would even fool the flag. I'd glance at the flag, hold off and shoot. Glance back at flag and it's hanging. Hit exactly where I aimed. 600 f-open. Mike

 

[garandman]

Let’s look at it a little differently. What is your strategy when you shoot a match?

Are you inherently a picker? Or are you a runner?

Do you wait on the flags for the same exact condition to come back or do you tend to hold?


Beside a dead calm what is your favorite condition? Ideally for myself I like a straight crosswind. I want to catch it at its lowest point and as it picks up I’ll hold onto it.

What condition tends to hurt you the most? For me it’s a let off.

Some things to think about.

Bart

My curent method that works for me but some say is "wrong" is two fold - (1) to look for "zero wind" conditions - i.e. the flag vane isn't moving and the tail is a dead straight down 6 o'clock position with no movement, or (2) look for 1-2 of the most prevalent conditions, with the tail no more tham from 4 - 8 o'clock. 3 / 6 / 9 o'clock are my preferred, as for me they tend to produce the most predictable results.

The most common at our range are 5'oclock and 7'o clock. I've learned from this thread to find 2-3 of the most prevalent directions, and shoot sighters for those. And also that a main use of wind flags is to learn when *not* to shoot.

 

[Tim s]

I guess it all comes down to the guys up and down the line with you. You only have to beat them. My father wins a lot of rimfire matches, by a long shot, shooting 250 17,18x. What would that end up getting him in a national championship?[/QUOTE

That would be competitive in a big match, assuming that is on the IR target, not the IBS target.
Of course the challenge is to do it on a somewhat frequent basis, at different sites, under various conditions, which I suspect you’d probably know.
It is interesting however, especially shooting both CF and RF.
CF I am, mostly a runner, especially @200yd, in RF you have to be super careful, if conditions hold (rarely) I have shot 250’s in under 4 minutes but most times, a lot of sighters to finish a card.

 

[Hi-NV Shooter]

What I'm hearing you say is there's really no way to give a specific hold for a 5 mph wind (in this case a 22rf 40 gr Midas + 1073 fps velocity)

Is that correct?

To my thinking, that would be precisely true, but there would also be a most probable general hold to use as a starting point. I mean, there are general principles of physics involved here.

Am I wrong?

This could be the problem, don't over think or assume, shoot sighters they will put to rest any over thinking or assumption
if you aim dead center on the sighter and it goes high left say 10'o-clock are you going to say hey wait the chart says it should have gone here or the velocity of the ammo should have put it here and not there.

As I have stated sighters will give the best insight for where to hold and when.

Lee

 

[Fairchaser]

@garandman Advice given to me by Tony Boyer was just practice holding off. Let the conditions change and try holding to hit the same spot. If you miss so what. If you do it enough it becomes instinctive.

Bart

Good advice. We have a built in super computer that allows us to perform functions without thinking about it. Throwing a basketball in a hoop has its mechanics but in the end it’s instinctive. Shooting wind is similar if we tune into it.