Terrible Day Shooting

[clunker]

I still have not heard back from Beretta since August 31st, and they were supposedly going to fire some rounds on that day. However, they updated their website on September 6th to show that they are still awaiting parts.

I'm hoping some of the earlier responders to this thread can chime in on some new casing measurements I took today. I was thinking about how the Federal cartridges would not chamber, and there must be something different about those casing dimensions than the other two. I found something. The narrowest part of the extractor groove has a much shorter length than Hornady and Norma. Online sources suggest that the standard should be .0550, but Federal is at .0530. Norma and Hornady are at .0570 and .0585 respectively. Is it possible that my rifle's extractor is too thick and will not fit in the narrower groove? The other surprise is that the tapered part of the extractor groove is much longer on the Hornady casing. The standard is .0425, and Hornady is at .0660 while Norma and Federal are at .0455 and .0460 respectively. Is it possible that this dimension inconsistency could have caused the blown primer?

 

[clunker]

***Update***
Beretta has at least been updating their website info on a regular basis, but the status of "awaiting parts" remains unchanged since the beginning of September. Honestly, even parts that ship from overseas do not take more than two weeks to get here. Did they ship the parts by canoe? I will be calling Beretta tomorrow for an explanation.

 

[#40Fan]

Argh, I was hoping for the gun was being shipped back to you "update".

 

[clunker]

Argh, I was hoping for the gun was being shipped back to you "update".

So was I. I called Beretta today, but the tech who is handling my case had the day off. Another tech was only able to tell me that they had ordered some of the ammo that I was not able to chamber, to see if they could duplicate the problem.

 

[clunker]

***Update***
After two weeks with the same status "awaiting parts", I called Beretta again yesterday. Rick gave me the same song and dance about waiting for nickle plated brass from Federal to see if the case is at fault for issues with chambering. That's the same info I got two weeks ago. Exactly how long does it take to get some brass and try to load it. He also did not remember AGAIN that there is an issue with the stock. To make matters worse, I looked up the status again today, and Beretta's website does not show any record that it exists. Unbelievable! Tried to call, but they are already closed for the day.

 

[#40Fan]

Damn, at this point I'd be asking for my money or rifle back so I could sell the thing and be done with it.

 

[wbm]

Oh yeah! Rifle would have gone back after first day at the range. Was never factory ammunition problem to start with.

 

[clunker]

After this experience, I don't think I will ever buy another Tikka or Beretta product again. I love my Tikkas, but if this is the kind of customer service I can expect, what good is having a warranty. Rick tried to to tell me today that the rounds they have fired through the rifle do not result in flattened primers. I'm calling BS! ALL 21 rounds of factory ammo from two manufacturers that I fired through that rifle had flat primers. Thank God the more experienced people on this forum noticed them in the pics. To top off the story, hunting season starts in ten days. Even if the issue is resolved, and I magically get the rifle back before then, I have zero time to practice or find a compatible factory load.

 

[Knotwild]

I am sorry you are having problems with them. You would think they would just re-barrel or even replace the rifle to avoid bad press. I had to send one back for a more minor problem and from time out to time home it was only about a month.

 

[muleman69]

Do post some pics with ammo that would not chamber alongside cases that did, if an eld bullet chambered, the Nosler accubond should've too.
You pulled your pants down on the bolt switcheroo, but no harm no foul, you could not close the bolt nor did the casehead fit in the bolt to fire, some things are better kept to themselves, lol
I'm not convinced you need a gunsmith to eyeball anything, unless the crown is messed up, and that should be noticeable, clean the gun, find some ammo that is going to work. Blowing a primer with hornady ammo does not equate to physical harm

Milo shouldn't all factory's chamber? The ELD's not chambering raises a red flag I would think? Rifle chamber may be out of spec which could lead to a potential disaster. My $.02

 

[muleman69]

Here is the verdict. I will be sending the rifle to Beretta. Thank you all for the advice. There are simply too many issues that happened on the same day to just ignore. Someone on the Tikka forum suggested that many of the T3x rifles have a manufacturing defect that results in an incorrect head space. I'm not taking any chances

I thoroughly cleaned the bore and chamber before firing a single shot, and I only fired 21 rounds. I have been meaning to post another pic, but I apparently exceeded my allotted 10 posts per 48 hours and had to wait until today. The following pic shows an identical scratch at the shoulder on several casings. The disturbing part is that all 21 fired casings from both manufacturers have the exact same scratch. I loaded some live rounds to see if the scratch might have been caused by loading or ejecting but could not duplicate the scratch.

View attachment 1053781

Yes send it back for sure

 

[muleman69]

Unless I'm misreading something, your cartridge measurements all look like they are in spec. Could be you have an out-of-spec chamber. I'd pull the bolt and carefully inspect the chamber using a good light. Some years ago while I was taking a long range class, I was shooting from prone in some long grass. Somehow, I closed the bolt on several blades of grass that got plastered to the walls of the chamber on the first shot. From then on, my Federal match ammo chambered hard until I was able to scrub the chamber clean. I didn't have any of the other pressure indicators you are experiencing (flat primer, etc), but rounds were hard to chamber and the bolt was stiff. Good cleaning solved the problem for me. From your description, though, and careful measurements, it may be that you have an under-sized chamber.

Keep us posted on what you learn.

I also closed the bolt on a piece of grass, when I ejected the case the grass was perfectly molded into the body and shoulder. I then borescope the chamber and there was a piece flat on the wall ,cleaned up well (thanks to the scope)

 

[Milo 2.0]

Milo shouldn't all factory's chamber? The ELD's not chambering raises a red flag I would think? Rifle chamber may be out of spec which could lead to a potential disaster. My $.02

I really wanted to stay out of this post. And it was Federal ammo with a Nosler bullet that would not chamber, refer to the pic posted. One would think all factory ammo should chamber, but we have no idea what reamer was used, it makes a big difference. Plus on reamers, how many chambers does one reamer do at Tikka, reamer wear creates issues. Do you have any idea how many different 6.5 creed reamers are on the market?
No where in this post did someone tell the op to pull a bullet and see if the brass chambers by itself, to determine if it was seat depth or the cases.
Too much speculation on an out of spec chamber because one brand of ammo with a different bullet shape would not feed, and the fact that some shit Hornady ammo blew a primer which has been going on for 7-8 yrs. I have been around a lot of blown primer Hornady ammo in 6.5 creed, always a source of amusement.
I think I implied from the start that other than throating this gun, nothing else is going to happen, gun is coming back as is. Also on the throating, if the duplicate ammo they buy to test has the bullet jammed 5 thou deeper into the case, they may determine that nothing is wrong there either, no way in hell will they fire ammo mailed to them by the customer. I read they should just send him a new gun, not that easy, to do that, the original receiver needs to be destroyed and a new action needs the same serial number back in place, or a new rifle off the line goes to an FFL to redo the paperwork.
I guess I'm just not a "the sky is falling" type of guy, a press and a die may have solved all of this. And not a one person offered up to help the op maybe try to seat a bullet or 2 deeper and test.
I've been through a lot having custom rifles built, and have learned a lot in the process. Today I understand freebore, reamer choices, etc..., and today I'd rather ream a short freebore, then manually ream it to my specs, all I have to do is take my oal tool, a couple bullets, my caliper and comparator to the smith's upon completion, then it is all on me if a wrong choice was made.
I wish the op all the best here, but feel he is going to be disappointed with the outcome.

 

[muleman69]

I really wanted to stay out of this post. And it was Federal ammo with a Nosler bullet that would not chamber, refer to the pic posted. One would think all factory ammo should chamber, but we have no idea what reamer was used, it makes a big difference. Plus on reamers, how many chambers does one reamer do at Tikka, reamer wear creates issues. Do you have any idea how many different 6.5 creed reamers are on the market?
No where in this post did someone tell the op to pull a bullet and see if the brass chambers by itself, to determine if it was seat depth or the cases.
Too much speculation on an out of spec chamber because one brand of ammo with a different bullet shape would not feed, and the fact that some shit Hornady ammo blew a primer which has been going on for 7-8 yrs. I have been around a lot of blown primer Hornady ammo in 6.5 creed, always a source of amusement.
I think I implied from the start that other than throating this gun, nothing else is going to happen, gun is coming back as is. Also on the throating, if the duplicate ammo they buy to test has the bullet jammed 5 thou deeper into the case, they may determine that nothing is wrong there either, no way in hell will they fire ammo mailed to them by the customer. I read they should just send him a new gun, not that easy, to do that, the original receiver needs to be destroyed and a new action needs the same serial number back in place, or a new rifle off the line goes to an FFL to redo the paperwork.
I guess I'm just not a "the sky is falling" type of guy, a press and a die may have solved all of this. And not a one person offered up to help the op maybe try to seat a bullet or 2 deeper and test.
I've been through a lot having custom rifles built, and have learned a lot in the process. Today I understand freebore, reamer choices, etc..., and today I'd rather ream a short freebore, then manually ream it to my specs, all I have to do is take my oal tool, a couple bullets, my caliper and comparator to the smith's upon completion, then it is all on me if a wrong choice was made.
I wish the op all the best here, but feel he is going to be disappointed with the outcome.

Be interesting to no the outcome. I have a number of friends that own tika's that swear by them and I do no they shoot good out of the box. I'm with you on outcome disappointment. I for one would never feel right about the rifle ,but that is just me

 

[Milo 2.0]

Be interesting to no the outcome. I have a number of friends that own tika's that swear by them and I do no they shoot good out of the box. I'm with you on outcome disappointment. I for one would never feel right about the rifle ,but that is just me

I can be that way too, the trust was broken, and at your age should know making emotion based decisions usually ends up in a financial drain. But if their customer service can come up with a logical explanation, no reason to shit can a rifle. I've paid a lot more money for a rifle and not been happy, rare a competent gunsmith cannot fix the issues.
Tikka makes a decent product at an affordable price. Right now their customer service is tasked with determining if something is wrong with a product they shipped out for retail, If the chamber specs out, and they fire their trusted test ammo and it works, going above that level is a testimonial in their favor.
I've had to send guns in, S&W, Colt, Springfield Armory were top notch, I do not own a Kimber product today.

 

[clunker]

***Update***

I checked status after getting home today. The rifle is being shipped back. Beretta could not find anything wrong with it. Last time I spoke with Rick, he said he would include some of the cases that he fired, so I could compare them to the ones I fired with flattened primers.

My Tikka T3 in .223 is now consistently staying under MOA with factory ammo, with many groups under 0.5". That rifle's performance is the reason I bought another Tikka. It also didn't hurt that Tikkas have such a silky smooth bolt action and maybe the best factory trigger of any rifle anywhere near that price. If the Creedmoor doesn't perform similarly after finding what load it likes, I will be very disappointed, to say the least.

I really appreciate everyone's input. If nothing else, I have gained an astonishing level of knowledge in a short time. A few trips to the range will tell me what I need to know, but if I can find a decent local gunsmith, I may take it in for a second opinion. At my age, I am well aware that becoming emotionally attached to a money pit is a recipe for disaster (ie. my '63 MG, or my '68 VW). I am attached to my .223 because it is my first rifle, and it has earned respect. The new Creedmoor is just a new toy, and I will drop it like a cheating girlfriend if it doesn't perform. Another expensive lesson learned.

Anyway, for those who are interested, I will post some pics of targets at the range when the rifle gets home. I have a couple boxes of Berger match ammo with Lapua brass waiting for it.

 

[Milo 2.0]

***Update***

Anyway, for those who are interested, I will post some pics of targets at the range when the rifle gets home. I have a couple boxes of Berger match ammo with Lapua brass waiting for it.

You're on the right track with quality ammo. Give the gun an honest try before dumping it like a fat girlfriend, lol

 

[muleman69]

***Update***

I checked status after getting home today. The rifle is being shipped back. Beretta could not find anything wrong with it. Last time I spoke with Rick, he said he would include some of the cases that he fired, so I could compare them to the ones I fired with flattened primers.

My Tikka T3 in .223 is now consistently staying under MOA with factory ammo, with many groups under 0.5". That rifle's performance is the reason I bought another Tikka. It also didn't hurt that Tikkas have such a silky smooth bolt action and maybe the best factory trigger of any rifle anywhere near that price. If the Creedmoor doesn't perform similarly after finding what load it likes, I will be very disappointed, to say the least.

I really appreciate everyone's input. If nothing else, I have gained an astonishing level of knowledge in a short time. A few trips to the range will tell me what I need to know, but if I can find a decent local gunsmith, I may take it in for a second opinion. At my age, I am well aware that becoming emotionally attached to a money pit is a recipe for disaster (ie. my '63 MG, or my '68 VW). I am attached to my .223 because it is my first rifle, and it has earned respect. The new Creedmoor is just a new toy, and I will drop it like a cheating girlfriend if it doesn't perform. Another expensive lesson learned.

Anyway, for those who are interested, I will post some pics of targets at the range when the rifle gets home. I have a couple boxes of Berger match ammo with Lapua brass waiting for it.

Wish you the best, let us no

 

[Knotwild]

My Tikka CTR liked 130's so much that I haven't tried anything in the 140gr range. It shoots Prime 130's real well, which uses the Norma bullet I think. But get this - some of the best groups also included Hornady 129gr Whitetail. I tried some Federal Gold Match with the 130 Berger and it was not good at all. I also just picked up some American Eagle 120gr, which uses a 120 SMK, but haven't tried it yet.

Being able to buy a factory rifle that shoots in the 1/2 MOA range with ammo that runs $19.00 a box on sale is pretty nice.

 

[clunker]

***Update***

I received the Creedmoor today and did a quick inspection. As promised, Beretta sent four spent cases from the ammo they fired, so I could compare them with my cases. The primers look the same as the ones I fired (flat, but not stretched out to the edge of the pockets). I seriously doubted they would remember to inspect the stock, but the rifle arrived with a brand new stock without any blemishes. It appears to have been well cared for since I don't see a single scratch on any part of the rifle. If I can sneak home early from work tomorrow, I'll take it out to the range to see how it performs.

It has already been discussed on this thread, but I still have to ask. Are mildly flattened primers ever considered normal? I'll try to post some pics of Beretta's cases next to the ones I fired, and maybe some target pics tomorrow.