Terrible Day Shooting

[clunker]

Thanks for all the great input everyone. I will definitely take it to a gunsmith before shooting again, but I don't have a clue who is any good in Pullman, WA. I had a "Duh" moment when someone suggested that the bolt faces are different between a .223 and a 6.5. Should have figured that one out on my own. Of course, I would never attempt to fire it with the wrong bolt.

I should clarify a few things about my shooting. After manually sighting in the scope with Hornady (because my boresight hasn't arrived yet), I did a 3-shot group at 1.3" MOA also with Hornady ammo. No problems yet. I was excited to see what the Federal ammo would do, so I tried to load it, and it would not chamber. I decided to abandon Federal until I could research the problem, and I switched to Norma match. Next two 3-shot groups were 1.2" and 1.1" MOA respectively. The third shot of the second group was the hollow tip that wasn't hollow. Next grouping was 1.9" MOA. Then I switched back to Hornady. First two shots were about an inch apart, and the third was when the primer blew out, resulting in a 2.0" MOA. I decided to do one more grouping with Hornady, resulting in 2.9" MOA. I figured something was wrong, so I put her away and helped my buddy get his .308 on paper. Hox53, thank you so much for the information about Hornady primers. I google searched for hours and could not find any reference to known issues, and their website does not mention any recalls since 2014.

21 total shots in more than three hours, with at least 5 minutes between shots to let the barrel cool in the shade with the bolt open. Shots were fired from prone position with a 9" bipod on grass. If I can ever tame the bipod hop, I should start getting 0.5" MOA groups with a properly functioning Tikka. Scope is a Bushnell Banner Dusk & Dawn 3-9x 40mm. It was cheap, but it does the job. I wanted the quality rifle first, and I can always upgrade the scope later. Hopefully, that clears up some of the questions from other posters. I will take precise measurements of the casings and post again. I'll see if I can post some pics as well. If anyone knows a good gunsmith in the Pullman area, I'm all ears.

Thanks again everyone.

 

[Milo 2.0]

Thanks for all the great input everyone. I will definitely take it to a gunsmith before shooting again, but I don't have a clue who is any good in Pullman, WA. I had a "Duh" moment when someone suggested that the bolt faces are different between a .223 and a 6.5. Should have figured that one out on my own. Of course, I would never attempt to fire it with the wrong bolt.



I will take precise measurements of the casings and post again. I'll see if I can post some pics as well. If anyone knows a good gunsmith in the Pullman area, I'm all ears.

Thanks again everyone.

Do post some pics with ammo that would not chamber alongside cases that did, if an eld bullet chambered, the Nosler accubond should've too.
You pulled your pants down on the bolt switcheroo, but no harm no foul, you could not close the bolt nor did the casehead fit in the bolt to fire, some things are better kept to themselves, lol
I'm not convinced you need a gunsmith to eyeball anything, unless the crown is messed up, and that should be noticeable, clean the gun, find some ammo that is going to work. Blowing a primer with hornady ammo does not equate to physical harm

 

[alinwa]

.......... I tried the bolt from my .223 since it is identical to my Creedmoor, and it had the same results. Will not load.

seriously?


edited to say "sorry, I didn't read far enough"

 

[K22]

Since you're a hunter functionally is critical to any rifle / ammo. DAH, you know this already, sorry for stating the obvious.

I'm very surprise that you have function problems with Federal premium. Something seems amiss with the rifle. Have a gunsmith check the head space.

This is a new cartridge so perhaps the manufactuer's spec. aren't consistent although that would shock me too.

It's not surprising to have group problems with a new rifle although the Tikka's are high quality but the funtion problems you mentioned seem to indicated it's a rifle issue. You shouldn't have to resort to reloading to solve this problem.

Check the rifle first before spending any more money on ammo.

 

[Legionnaire]

Would like to see pictures of the three different cartridges, including the headstamp.

 

[clunker]

The caliper results are in, and they are not what I expected. Turns out it was the Hornady casing that was visibly different and not Federal. The Federal casings seem to have slightly more rounded angles, but otherwise they look virtually identical to Norma. Picture of the three rounds shows from left to right: Norma, Hornady, and Federal. It is really obvious that the Hornady extractor groove is much larger than the other two.

Sorry for the crude pic of my hand-written my measurements. I don't know what tolerance is acceptable, but the casings were not identical. Per request, I took a shot of the head stamps along with the failed casing next to one of the other spent Hornady casings.

 

[carlsbad]

Primer on that fired Hornady is pretty flat.

 

[clunker]

Update

Considering the caliper measurements, I decided to try loading a round of Federal again. I didn't do this before because I don't like having a loaded rifle in the house, not even for a few seconds. I managed to chamber one round but it was a tight squeeze. It required much more force than any other round I have loaded in either my CM or the .223. Everything else still loads smoothly. Still not comfortable with shooting it until I get some answers.

 

[clunker]

Primer on that fired Hornady is pretty flat.

Not sure what that means. Is it good or bad?

 

[rebel]

Not sure what that means. Is it good or bad?

Flat primer - high pressure
Have your chamber dimensions checked bud.

 

[hoz53]

Thanks for all the great input everyone. I will definitely take it to a gunsmith before shooting again, but I don't have a clue who is any good in Pullman, WA. I had a "Duh" moment when someone suggested that the bolt faces are different between a .223 and a 6.5. Should have figured that one out on my own. Of course, I would never attempt to fire it with the wrong bolt.

I should clarify a few things about my shooting. After manually sighting in the scope with Hornady (because my boresight hasn't arrived yet), I did a 3-shot group at 1.3" MOA also with Hornady ammo. No problems yet. I was excited to see what the Federal ammo would do, so I tried to load it, and it would not chamber. I decided to abandon Federal until I could research the problem, and I switched to Norma match. Next two 3-shot groups were 1.2" and 1.1" MOA respectively. The third shot of the second group was the hollow tip that wasn't hollow. Next grouping was 1.9" MOA. Then I switched back to Hornady. First two shots were about an inch apart, and the third was when the primer blew out, resulting in a 2.0" MOA. I decided to do one more grouping with Hornady, resulting in 2.9" MOA. I figured something was wrong, so I put her away and helped my buddy get his .308 on paper. Hox53, thank you so much for the information about Hornady primers. I google searched for hours and could not find any reference to known issues, and their website does not mention any recalls since 2014.

21 total shots in more than three hours, with at least 5 minutes between shots to let the barrel cool in the shade with the bolt open. Shots were fired from prone position with a 9" bipod on grass. If I can ever tame the bipod hop, I should start getting 0.5" MOA groups with a properly functioning Tikka. Scope is a Bushnell Banner Dusk & Dawn 3-9x 40mm. It was cheap, but it does the job. I wanted the quality rifle first, and I can always upgrade the scope later. Hopefully, that clears up some of the questions from other posters. I will take precise measurements of the casings and post again. I'll see if I can post some pics as well. If anyone knows a good gunsmith in the Pullman area, I'm all ears.

Thanks again everyone.

that was Matt that found the info on hornady ammo and it wasnt really about primers it was about ammo loaded to hot. google something like hornady 6.5 creed ammo to hot? thanks anyhow- good youre taking this to a gunsmith- if youre in WA there should be some good ones close.

 

[Milo 2.0]

Show us a pic of the bullet on the Federal rd you forced into the chamber, I bet the bullet is scratched up from being jammed into your rifling.
You don't have the means to pull a bullet with no reloading gear, or seat the bullet deeper. You could take a hammer and pound one in slightly and recheck.

Flat primers on new brass can be a byproduct of headspace too, case is not chamber dimension yet and gets slammed into the bolt face upon firing. In my head, once a certain amount of pressure is built, there has to be some energy trying to push the primer out of the pocket, the bolt face prevents it from happening, they can get flat on new or oversized brass.
But the blown primer is a serious sign of pressure.

 

[Legionnaire]

Unless I'm misreading something, your cartridge measurements all look like they are in spec. Could be you have an out-of-spec chamber. I'd pull the bolt and carefully inspect the chamber using a good light. Some years ago while I was taking a long range class, I was shooting from prone in some long grass. Somehow, I closed the bolt on several blades of grass that got plastered to the walls of the chamber on the first shot. From then on, my Federal match ammo chambered hard until I was able to scrub the chamber clean. I didn't have any of the other pressure indicators you are experiencing (flat primer, etc), but rounds were hard to chamber and the bolt was stiff. Good cleaning solved the problem for me. From your description, though, and careful measurements, it may be that you have an under-sized chamber.

Keep us posted on what you learn.

 

[hoz53]

Show us a pic of the bullet on the Federal rd you forced into the chamber, I bet the bullet is scratched up from being jammed into your rifling.
You don't have the means to pull a bullet with no reloading gear, or seat the bullet deeper. You could take a hammer and pound one in slightly and recheck.

Flat primers on new brass can be a byproduct of headspace too, case is not chamber dimension yet and gets slammed into the bolt face upon firing. In my head, once a certain amount of pressure is built, there has to be some energy trying to push the primer out of the pocket, the bolt face prevents it from happening, they can get flat on new or oversized brass.
But the blown primer is a serious sign of pressure.

there are lots of things we could suggest find clunkers problem however in this situation its probably best him take it to the GS. it very well could be a bullet jaming in the rifling but we dont know. a handloader could figure this out pretty quick but Please dont tell anybody to drive the bullet into a loaded round by beating it in with a hammer. that aint to safe even though you may have done it with your lee loader.

 

[Milo 2.0]

there are lots of things we could suggest find clunkers problem however in this situation its probably best him take it to the GS. it very well could be a bullet jaming in the rifling but we dont know. a handloader could figure this out pretty quick but Please dont tell anybody to drive the bullet into a loaded round by beating it in with a hammer. that aint to safe even though you may have done it with your lee loader.

Ok, I'll concede, only because of the hardy crimp on the rd. Trust me I'd hammer it if I had no other means.
It'd help if new guys filled out a profile, someone next door could be reading this post and have already contacted him about it.
No clue on the Lee loader, what is it.

 

[hoz53]

Ok, I'll concede, only because of the hardy crimp on the rd. Trust me I'd hammer it if I had no other means.
It'd help if new guys filled out a profile, someone next door could be reading this post and have already contacted him about it.
No clue on the Lee loader, what is it.

well you know it would prob work but if a guys new enough and the primer is a little above the base or a little stone is under there ect ect we take for granted these things others might not know sometimes

 

[Milo 2.0]

well you know it would prob work but if a guys new enough and the primer is a little above the base or a little stone is under there ect ect we take for granted these things others might not know sometimes

It was bad advice. I just hate to see a guy seek out, drive, and pay a smith a half hours wages to inform him his throat is not reamed for that brand of ammo. Then a decision needs to made to do it or not, and the possibility of the smith having a throating reamer, or a reg reamer to do it.

 

[JFrank]

Just joined the forum and hoping for some answers.

I bought my new Tikka Superlite in 6.5 Creedmoor on Monday, and today I finally got to shoot it. Worst day ever shooting a rifle. I tried out three different types of factory ammo (Hornady ELD Match, Norma HPBT Match, and Federal Premium with Nosler Accubond). Had problems with all three. Groups looked pretty good until I came across a round of Norma that wasn't hollow point. It looked like lead was filled all the way to the tip. I should have thrown it out because my groups started getting bigger after firing that round. One grouping later, I shot a round of the Hornady and I could barely eject the casing. Turns out that the primer blasted out of its pocket and welded itself to the bolt (not literally). It took about 40 minutes to remove the carbon scoring from the bolt after I got home. Frustrated with Hornady and Norma, I switched to Federal which would not even load into the chamber. The box says 6.5 Creedmoor, but the casings definitely have different dimensions than the other two. I was really looking forward to seeing the performance of Nosler's Accubond because I have heard so many good things about it and was hoping to use it for hunting whitetail this year.


Sorry for the long post, but I needed to vent. I never had any of these issues (even with cheap ammo) with my .223. Are these manufacturer defects normal? Do you think it has something to do with the Creedmoor being fairly new to the market? I love the rifle, but maybe it's cursed.

Clunker
I don't feel like reading this entire post even though I'm sure there's good advice. Please note Mountain Tactical/ Tikka performance in Montana. They are all things Tikka!
Questions /Resourses etc. if there is a problem with a certain ammo they most likely have been there and know about it.
Just saying
J
Let me re phrase that - Im being lazy today

 

[hoz53]

It was bad advice. I just hate to see a guy seek out, drive, and pay a smith a half hours wages to inform him his throat is not reamed for that brand of ammo. Then a decision needs to made to do it or not, and the possibility of the smith having a throating reamer, or a reg reamer to do it.

yeah i hate to see a guy have to spend the money to but its more than the cartridge didnt fit in the rifle. he had the blown primer. something else may be wrong and if he doesnt have a buddy helping him he really should get it checked out. i wouldnt let a gunsmith ream the throat of a factory gun im shooting factory loads in. they should fit. there could be problems caused by the ammo company or/and the gun company and if there are they should make it right by clunker. through all this he is hopefully learning

 

[Ringostar]

He could have gotten something in the chamber while waiting to cool. That could raise the pressure. It then could be stuck in the chamber. I would definitely get things looked at with a bore scope.