Terrible Day Shooting

[clunker]

***Update***

I have talked with Beretta, and they recommended that I send the rifle directly to their home base in Maryland instead of the closer service center. The customer service rep gave me the impression that he already knew what the problem was, but he didn't commit to any knowledge of a known issue. Turnaround was estimated at 7 to 10 days after receiving the rifle, which would be very impressive if they can actually meet that prediction. I'm hoping to ship it tomorrow, and I will keep everyone updated. In the mean time, it was fun to take the .223 out again yesterday. Considering the educated and rapid responses, this will be my go-to forum from now on. Thanks everyone!

 

[Milo 2.0]

It's been 6 weeks, what did you find out?

 

[clunker]

My apologies. I had some unanticipated expenses (auto repair), and had to postpone paying the shipping. Rifle should be sent out on Monday. Really sucks to have a brand new toy that I haven't been able to use.

 

[clunker]

***Update***

The rifle was received by Beretta on 8/22 and was entered into their warranty service list on the same day (a good sign of efficiency). It is currently classified as "Awaiting Inspection."

 

[Knotwild]

I had a good experience with Beretta and Tikka. I bought a 6.5 CTR online and it arrived with the front screw stripped out on the rail. They don't tell anybody, but the very front screw on the CTR is designed to hold a mirage shield (so in my case the second of three screws from the back was stripped. They repaired it and had it back in under 4 weeks (can't remember the exact number of days) at no charge.

 

[clunker]

***Update***

As of yesterday, Beretta has changed the repair status to "Awaiting Parts." In other words, they found a problem. Regardless of what they found, Beretta has already inspected the rifle and ordered parts within 4 business days of receiving my shipment.

 

[Legionnaire]

I hope you get an explanation. Ruger fixed my PC Carbine promptly and completely, but they didn't provide and explanation of what they found wrong with it. It would have been nice to know.

 

[clunker]

I hope you get an explanation. Ruger fixed my PC Carbine promptly and completely, but they didn't provide and explanation of what they found wrong with it. It would have been nice to know.

I specifically requested in my letter that they give full disclosure. Not sure if I will get it, but I am a persistent SOB. If you don't know what the original problem was, how can you really know if it was corrected?

 

[seymour fish]

I recently read that a reloader found that two different powders reacted poorly when fired one after the other. Bad fouling was the result. Just a thought.

This is fact

 

[bigstick6017555]

This is fact

]

It maybe, but for me, i have yet to see it make a difference. For the past 60 + yrs. i have heard this conversation come up many times around shooting ranges and gun shops. At one point i spent 2 days at the range with a 6mmbr and a 6ppc, and at an other point with a hunting rig .280 Remington to see if i could see for myself the cause and effect of this happening. I mixed and matched different powders, primers and bullets through all 3 guns that i knew what kind of accuracy they could preform. I shot 250 rounds out of all 3 guns, cleaning and not cleaning. The only change i saw was poi. For me personally, i could not see a problem. I did not do this to try and change anybody's mind, i just wanted to see if it was a possible problem that i might have been missing, because i had been doing it for many yrs. I would like to see a scientific test done on this very subject in a tunnel, but with all the variables, such as barrels, actions, powder. bullets, and primers it would be one hell of an undertaking. If it is what you believe in, then by all means do what works for you. Thanks

 

[Mozella]

Could it do better? Of course. Does it need to do better to whack a deer at 100? No

If you prefer to shoot them in the eye............ yes.

 

[seymour fish]

]

It maybe, but for me, i have yet to see it make a difference. For the past 60 + yrs. i have heard this conversation come up many times around shooting ranges and gun shops. At one point i spent 2 days at the range with a 6mmbr and a 6ppc, and at an other point with a hunting rig .280 Remington to see if i could see for myself the cause and effect of this happening. I mixed and matched different powders, primers and bullets through all 3 guns that i knew what kind of accuracy they could preform. I shot 250 rounds out of all 3 guns, cleaning and not cleaning. The only change i saw was poi. For me personally, i could not see a problem. I did not do this to try and change anybody's mind, i just wanted to see if it was a possible problem that i might have been missing, because i had been doing it for many yrs. I would like to see a scientific test done on this very subject in a tunnel, but with all the variables, such as barrels, actions, powder. bullets, and primers it would be one hell of an undertaking. If it is what you believe in, then by all means do what works for you. Thanks

I have seen it very clearly going from stick to ball without cleaning. No “belief” required. Speaking specifically to fouling. Based on your lengthy experience to the contrary, perhaps it is uncommon.

 

[clunker]

]

It maybe, but for me, i have yet to see it make a difference. For the past 60 + yrs. i have heard this conversation come up many times around shooting ranges and gun shops. At one point i spent 2 days at the range with a 6mmbr and a 6ppc, and at an other point with a hunting rig .280 Remington to see if i could see for myself the cause and effect of this happening. I mixed and matched different powders, primers and bullets through all 3 guns that i knew what kind of accuracy they could preform. I shot 250 rounds out of all 3 guns, cleaning and not cleaning. The only change i saw was poi. For me personally, i could not see a problem. I did not do this to try and change anybody's mind, i just wanted to see if it was a possible problem that i might have been missing, because i had been doing it for many yrs. I would like to see a scientific test done on this very subject in a tunnel, but with all the variables, such as barrels, actions, powder. bullets, and primers it would be one hell of an undertaking. If it is what you believe in, then by all means do what works for you. Thanks

I am on the fence with this argument. There are very reputable sources on both sides, and I don't have enough experience to make a judgement for myself. If you don't hand load (yet), you are at the mercy of factory loads, and you can't figure out what your rifle likes until you try several types of ammo. Speaking of which, do manufacturers disclose what powder they use, or is it top secret?

 

[270WinDude]

I am on the fence with this argument. There are very reputable sources on both sides, and I don't have enough experience to make a judgement for myself. If you don't hand load (yet), you are at the mercy of factory loads, and you can't figure out what your rifle likes until you try several types of ammo. Speaking of which, do manufacturers disclose what powder they use, or is it top secret?

I don't know that answer but I have heard of guys tapping out a round to look at the powder and make a guess as to what it is.

 

[clunker]

***Update***
I got a call from Rick at Beretta today, and he believes that there is nothing wrong with head space. He also did not seem to remember from my letter that there might be issues with chamber pressure and that there is a manufacturing defect on the stock. Thank God that my fellow forum members clued me into the flattened primers because they seem to have escaped Beretta's radar, even though I sent photos. The stock defect is obvious, and I'm starting to get the feeling that Beretta wants to avoid paying for a defective rifle. Rick said they would fire some rounds today, but I fear I am getting thrown under the bus.

As a reminder: Primers from all 21 rounds fired are flattened like a pancake, one round blasted a primer out of the pocket, one of the three types of factory ammo I purchased will not chamber. This cannot be a coincidence. If any more experienced members can give advice, I would greatly appreciate it.

 

[Mr.Knowit all]

Clunker,
You think that is bad... I had a factory round stuck in my new gock43. I was halfway through my 3rd mag (approx. 15 rounds) and it happened. I attached a picture to show you. Liberty Ammo was the company. I called and emailed them and asked if they had any issues or recalls on ammo and I got no response. Luckily I got it out and cleaned it really well. I took it to the range and it seems to be shooting fine. FML

 

[Steve Ladino]

something is wrong. you shouldnt be having those kinds of problems with factory ammo in a factory rifle. I never had a factory rifle that wouldnt accept a factory load. OF coarse i never had a 6.5 creedmoor either. do you have a caliper you can actually measure the ammunition with and is that how you know the federals are different? If i was you i believe id take the gun to the dealer you bought it from or a gunsmith to check it out. The hornady case that blew the primer was a sign of a very over pressure load. it may have caused a problem in the chamber and thats why you cant get the federals in. did the whole hornady case come out of the chamber? Of coarse it could be just because its a 6.5 creedmoor(that last part was a little joke)

Kinda hate to admit it but I blew the end cap off my Tikka bolt and the extractor clean off from an error I made in powder and bullet combination , even after that I had no problem with chamber damage

 

[Steve Ladino]

hoz53, sorry I missed your post. I have a very precise digital caliper, but the obvious difference between casings can be seen with the naked eye. All dimensions are virtually identical (including an exact .2640 bullet diameter) except for one measurement at the base of the casing. I tried the bolt from my .223 since it is identical to my Creedmoor, and it had the same results. Will not load.

Falfan, very few hunters in my neck of the woods are fortunate enough to see a legal buck within 100 yards during hunting season in their lifetimes. Then, take into consideration that 2" at a stable benchrest is a lot different than it is in the field. If I can't reliably shoot sub MOA at the range, then it isn't ethical to take a shot at 400 yards in the field.

You are comparing eggs and apples here.....bolts are very different !

 

[clunker]

You are comparing eggs and apples here.....bolts are very different !

Yep! We covered this earlier in the thread. There's a reason you are not supposed to go shooting after several beers (never done that). Perhaps the same rule applies to posting some information that was not well thought out (definitely did that).

A blown bolt shroud is scary. I've heard that it can happen but never talked to anyone who has actually experienced it. Are your eyes OK?

Earlier in this thread, there were several members who noticed and commented on the flattened primers. Can anyone who owns a 6.5CM confirm that this is unusual for that specific caliber? After taking advice from a salesman at Sportsman's Warehouse (which I will never do again) I purchased and fired some 5.56 NATO ammo in my .223. Identical rounds, right? Wrong! All the primers were flat like the ones from my 6.5CM. Based on what I've read, the chamber pressure in a CM is much higher than in a .223, so the question is . . . are those flat primers normal in a CM, or do I have a right to be concerned that Beretta seems to be ignoring the problem?

 

[Steve Ladino]

Yep! We covered this earlier in the thread. There's a reason you are not supposed to go shooting after several beers (never done that). Perhaps the same rule applies to posting some information that was not well thought out (definitely did that).

A blown bolt shroud is scary. I've heard that it can happen but never talked to anyone who has actually experienced it. Are your eyes OK?

Earlier in this thread, there were several members who noticed and commented on the flattened primers. Can anyone who owns a 6.5CM confirm that this is unusual for that specific caliber? After taking advice from a salesman at Sportsman's Warehouse (which I will never do again) I purchased and fired some 5.56 NATO ammo in my .223. Identical rounds, right? Wrong! All the primers were flat like the ones from my 6.5CM. Based on what I've read, the chamber pressure in a CM is much higher than in a .223, so the question is . . . are those flat primers normal in a CM, or do I have a right to be concerned that Beretta seems to be ignoring the problem?

Yep! We covered this earlier in the thread. There's a reason you are not supposed to go shooting after several beers (never done that). Perhaps the same rule applies to posting some information that was not well thought out (definitely did that).

A blown bolt shroud is scary. I've heard that it can happen but never talked to anyone who has actually experienced it. Are your eyes OK?

Earlier in this thread, there were several members who noticed and commented on the flattened primers. Can anyone who owns a 6.5CM confirm that this is unusual for that specific caliber? After taking advice from a salesman at Sportsman's Warehouse (which I will never do again) I purchased and fired some 5.56 NATO ammo in my .223. Identical rounds, right? Wrong! All the primers were flat like the ones from my 6.5CM. Based on what I've read, the chamber pressure in a CM is much higher than in a .223, so the question is . . . are those flat primers normal in a CM, or do I have a right to be concerned that Beretta seems to be ignoring the problem?

Sorry for doubling down on the bolt issue, didn't see Hoz's remarks...…...I have a nightforce 56 mm objective scope on the rifle which fortunately put my eye high enough out of the way of the end cap. Eye's good......Thanks