Sweets 7.62 isn't cutting it.

[LHSmith]

Here is what member Jackie Schmidt said on the Benchrest Central Forum back in 2007 -and probably repeated many times since:
"Aggs (aggregate = the end of the tournament yardage) are not shot through "clean" barrels. They are shot in dirty barrels."
IME this is sound advice and has proven true for me countless times.

 

[Fuj]

Sweets works for me.

 

[FNSafari]

Here is what member Jackie Schmidt said on the Benchrest Central Forum back in 2007 -and probably repeated many times since:
"Aggs (aggregate = the end of the tournament yardage) are not shot through "clean" barrels. They are shot in dirty barrels."
IME this is sound advice and has proven true for me countless times.

Clean your barrel scrupulously then odds are the first shot or two will have to settle in to true POI. After that first shot all others are through a dirty barrel. A match grade hand lapped barrel is very forgiving cleaning wise, at least most are. Only way is to shoot an agg without cleaning. I shoot IBS score and many do not clean their 30 cal barrels at all during a yardage agg. The barrel will tell you what you need to do.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Here is what member Jackie Schmidt said on the Benchrest Central Forum back in 2007 -and probably repeated many times since:
"Aggs (aggregate = the end of the tournament yardage) are not shot through "clean" barrels. They are shot in dirty barrels."
IME this is sound advice and has proven true for me countless times.

He meant we shoot a few fouler shots not go without cleaning. I doubt any br gun has more than 10rds on it before cleaning

 

[jelenko]

There is a hell of a difference between 60 times 15 weeks or in most cases months apart and 15 hours straight soak time. It doesn't matter how many times it's in the bore for 15 minutes, it's still only 15 minutes total "attack" time at any given cleaning session....now 15 hours straight....you probably wouldn't have a barrel left.

Actually, chemically, there isn't any difference - the material being reacted on does not have any memory of how long it's been acted on. When the chemical is present, the chemical action proceeds; remove the chemical, the chemical action stops. Is there some other process going on?

 

[centershot]

I use an aluminum jag. Does not give a false reading on the patch.

 

[LHSmith]

He meant we shoot a few fouler shots not go without cleaning. I doubt any br gun has more than 10rds on it before cleaning

I should have related his post in full. I will summarize his contention:
The night before the Nationals in Midland, a group congregated and the talk led to barrel cleaning, they all got their rifles and borescoped their barrels they were using the next day. The group determined Jackie's barrel was "dirty" with copper wash, streaks", and "all sorts of demons" inside. Jackie had just cleaned it prior.
Next day he went on to win the yardage with a 0.162 agg.
I believe the moral of that story is best summed up by Jackie-
"Through my years of shooting, I have found that Kriegers tend to shoot best when you clean the way I mentioned in my first post. No doubt, there is still some "demons" lurking around in there, but that is where the best agging capability seems to be. I guess for lack of a better word , I am "seasoning" the barrels, where the bullet see's the same thing every time it travels down the bore."
I have competed in SR Score and this advice mirrors my experience 100%.

 

[msinc]

Actually, chemically, there isn't any difference - the material being reacted on does not have any memory of how long it's been acted on. When the chemical is present, the chemical action proceeds; remove the chemical, the chemical action stops. Is there some other process going on?

Other process going on????.........yes sir, I believe there are actually at least two. One of course being time itself. I.e., the longer you spray salt water on metal the more it will rust. We can all understand that one. It takes time to act on the bore itself, hence the recommendation on the bottle. The second would be the fact that you wouldn't place Sweet's in a perfectly clean bore, so there is the process of it attacking the stuff in the bore {all that which is not the bore itself}. Place it in the bore for a short period and remove it and the next time the chemical has to start all over again with the chemical action, it does not simply continue where it left off. Chemical action stops when it is removed.

Edit: in theory, you could have a completely fouled up with copper and other residue bore that is so bad you can certainly get away with leaving the chemical longer and it doing no or very minimal damage because it gets depleted dissolving all the copper and other stuff. I have personally never seen a bore this bad, but that don't mean it cannot be.

 

[JEFFPPC]

Typical thread.....those who never tried something have the answers.

 

[johara1]

I used Warthog 1134 and never had an issue, then they were forced to shut down. Tried every over the counter junk out there, Best I found that wasn't a sticky mess was Montana extreme copper killer. BTW it sure doesn't even come close to Warthog 1134..... I could clean two guns in about 15 min. with it never had to soak a thing and I wasn't wearing out my barrels cleaning them for a week ..... jim

 

[JEFFPPC]

I use an aluminum jag. Does not give a false reading on the patch.

Centershot, yes you should use an aluminum jag. I was referring to a bore cleaning product that will trace blue if you but on a new clean piece of steel that was never near copper.

 

[INTJ]

Typical thread.....those who never tried something have the answers.

You mean like those who don't borescope their barrels thinking they know what clean is?

And yes, I am TOTALLY messing with you. I have no doubt what you have come up with works well for you..........

 

[INTJ]

I should have related his post in full. I will summarize his contention:
The night before the Nationals in Midland, a group congregated and the talk led to barrel cleaning, they all got their rifles and borescoped their barrels they were using the next day. The group determined Jackie's barrel was "dirty" with copper wash, streaks", and "all sorts of demons" inside. Jackie had just cleaned it prior.
Next day he went on to win the yardage with a 0.162 agg.
I believe the moral of that story is best summed up by Jackie-
"Through my years of shooting, I have found that Kriegers tend to shoot best when you clean the way I mentioned in my first post. No doubt, there is still some "demons" lurking around in there, but that is where the best agging capability seems to be. I guess for lack of a better word , I am "seasoning" the barrels, where the bullet see's the same thing every time it travels down the bore."
I have competed in SR Score and this advice mirrors my experience 100%.

I do not know any serious LR BR competitor that cleans his barrel between relays. The norm is shoot 70-100 rounds, then clean until the carbon is off the lands. My rifles rarely require more than one fouler shot after a heavy cleaning. It's not uncommon for me to clean to bare metal (not really meaning to), fire 4 or 5 rounds during the sighter period, ignoring the low POI of the first shot, then shooting my best agg of the day.

A fellow competitor who does very well hardly cleans at all.

Like I said earlier, the key is to be thoughtful and develop a consistent method.

 

[msinc]

You mean like those who don't borescope their barrels thinking they know what clean is?

And yes, I am TOTALLY messing with you. I have no doubt what you have come up with works well for you..........

Or believing their barrel is fine after running Sweets in it overnight.....

 

[JEFFPPC]

You mean like those who don't borescope their barrels thinking they know what clean is?

And yes, I am TOTALLY messing with you. I have no doubt what you have come up with works well for you..........

Actually when I had someone borescope 2 barrels it was before I had a borescope. I only really use the scope anymore to ck the throat. I have learned a lot with one. Just got done cleaning up this morning snow. Go ahead and mess, I am ready for rebuttal, lol

 

[INTJ]

Actually when I had someone borescope 2 barrels it was before I had a borescope. I only really use the scope anymore to ck the throat. I have learned a lot with one. Just got done cleaning up this morning snow. Go ahead and mess, I am ready for rebuttal, lol

I think there are so many ways that work that when we argue about it it's silly. While I was scared off the idea of leaving ammonia in the bore overnight many years ago, I have never tested it and have heard of guys doing that for years.

It's similar with Iosso. It cleans faster than anything I have used, but it did double my throat erosion on a 6 BRA. That means instead of .006" in 1000 rounds is went .006" in 500. Given a typical competitive barrel life of 1200 rounds, the increased erosion doesn't really mean anything.

So in the end, who really knows?

 

[johara1]

I do not know any serious LR BR competitor that cleans his barrel between relays. The norm is shoot 70-100 rounds, then clean until the carbon is off the lands. My rifles rarely require more than one fouler shot after a heavy cleaning. It's not uncommon for me to clean to bare metal (not really meaning to), fire 4 or 5 rounds during the sighter period, ignoring the low POI of the first shot, then shooting my best agg of the day.

A fellow competitor who does very well hardly cleans at all.

Like I said earlier, the key is to be thoughtful and develop a consistent method.

I know some serious ones that do clean every relay...... jim

 

[divingin]

I was referring to a bore cleaning product that will trace blue if you but on a new clean piece of steel that was never near copper.

What cleaning product reduces steel to a blue color?

 

[FNSafari]

Actually when I had someone borescope 2 barrels it was before I had a borescope. I only really use the scope anymore to ck the throat. I have learned a lot with one. Just got done cleaning up this morning snow. Go ahead and mess, I am ready for rebuttal, lol

Keeping a carbon ring from formin just in front of the case mouth is prudent and a borescope allows you to see it one is there and if'n it gone after your cleaning regimen.

 

[johara1]

Keeping a carbon ring from formin just in front of the case mouth is prudent and a borescope allows you to see it one is there and if'n it gone after your cleaning regimen.

That is mainly caused by short cases, and is easily removed. The carbon ring that is the problem is the one in the throat...... jim