Should There Be Courtesy?

[Hombre0321]

Been mulling this over for a couple of days now, trying to come up with away to approach this subject and remain Objective in that approach. Even the thread title is not what I wanted to say but just couldn't come up with away to say it any better. On to the subject.

There was an incident this past weekend at a shoot I attended, this incident was in truth a minor thing that got blown completely out of proportion. It had to do with a Handicapped Shooter ( god I hate that word Handicapped but cannot think of another) in the end it brought up for me a question or two.

If there is a challenged shooter ( physically challenged) should anything be done to accommodate this shooter? By this I mean, and in this case certainly all that was needed was a common courtesy. He didn't need any help from any other shooter, and even brought someone to help him with his gear, from the Match Director or any other shooter he needed nothing and asked for nothing. He did need to get as close as possible to the firing line on returning from the pits. There was even a road directly behind the firing line, that was fine for access. yet at the same time he was singled out and made to feel completely unwelcome. In the end he loaded up and left without firing a shot ( his choice).

So I guess where I am going with this is. Should not common courtest not be extended to all of the shooters at a Match? Even if some of these matches are good ole boy deals?

Today the shooting community is getting older. Should these older shooters be eliminated from competing if they need a little something different to be able to shoot? Maybe the shooting sports should only be for the young and fit.

What about as in the case above it is a Veteran who was wounded on duty and needs a little courtesy to shoot?

Roland

 

[Nodak7mm]

Roland,

Simple respect and basic accommodations should always be made to each and every competitor, regardless if they are challenged in some manner or not. If there is a physical limitation, of course courtesies should be extended to assist getting the individual to same playing field as the other shooters. Hell I cant grasp not helping another person out if need be. Its another subject tho if the offer is made and turned down, but at least I tried..

I cant fathom shooting/hanging with folks that would knowingly offend another to the point of causing someone to leave.. If you could please expand on what happened so we can get a clearer picture?

Rod

 

[ARIZONA_F_CLASS]

Yes, They should be shown some common courtesy and RESPECT that anybody else would expect and deserve.

 

[Immike]

We have several older and injured shooters in our group of fclass. We give them a bench class and keep them shooting. We gain from their presence and knowledge so we made new rules at our club match. Pit performance is alittle slow but rarely does anyone complain. They are the first ones to offer to help when help is needed.

 

[nfhjr62]

The NRA has a RULE 13.1 Physically Disabled Shooter, they may Petition for review so there is a way for them to shoot even if a protest is made check your rule BOOKS

 

[Bob Sebold]

At Lodi, we try to go the extra mile as needed to accommodate anybody with poor health. I hope to be able to shoot for a long time and when I get old, I hope I can get help if needed. Tell them to come to Lodi. They will always be welcome. Regardless of age or handicap I believe a good cigar after the match will fix most problems & maybe a beer or three!

 

[Waskawood]

I may be all wrong on this one but here are my thoughts. We have become such a win at all cost society that we are afraid that if we give in even a little bit, the other person may have an advantage over us to win. As a society we have lost track of the importance of just "Having Fun". I do not know "F" class rules so I am speaking of any competition event.

 

[bholcomb]

Everyone should be accommodated reasonably. I'm one of the younger f class shooters and I wouldn't hesitate to help anyone bring gear to the line or even pull a target if that's what it called for. For some reason it seems that folks are all for themselves these days. I have had some health issues the last year and am better now but during the time that I needed a little help I sure appreciated it because when I got behind that rifle my problems seemed to disappear for a while. I know what it feels like to be down and whatever I can do to help I will, even if that includes speaking up to the "privileged" so that everyone can have a fun time.

 

[ARIZONA_F_CLASS]

Waskawood , F -class means Fun!! Because we don't shoot sling. ;D

 

[bozo699]

There are certain rules that must be met by everyone regardless of health or age but many rules can be bent to assure a person a spot on the line, where I shoot we have made many accommodations for shooters with special needs, Courtesy should always be shown to everyone, it does not hurt anyone to give someone a helping hand, I have pulled double pit duty many times to help someone out that physically could not pull there pit duty, and was darn glad to be able to do it, I had shoulder surgery and eye surgery in the same week and shot the next week, if I had not had help, setting up my gear I couldn't have done it, that kind of behaviour would never happen at the deep creek range in Missoula Montana where I compete at, sorry to hear it did at your range Roland.
Wayne.

 

[Nomad47]

Although I appear to be physically fine, my back and neck just won't permit me to remain in the prone position for more than two or three shots.
So my question is: Would shooting from a bench have any advantage over shooting prone? It seems to me that it would be the other way around and that prone is as solid as you can get.

 

[Immike]

Although I appear to be physically fine, my back and neck just won't permit me to remain in the prone position for more than two or three shots.
So my question is: Would shooting from a bench have any advantage over shooting prone? It seems to me that it would be the other way around and that prone is as solid as you can get.

We put that to the test every month and they are pretty even up.

 

[Nomad47]

At the monthly informal long range steel shooting comp near Zanesville, Ohio, the shooters can choose either prone or provided benches (two per station). The majority of the young guys shoot prone while the majority of the older guys shoot from the benches. I have no idea where the majority of the winners shoot from.

 

[Bob Sebold]

There are several older gentlemen at our club that have neck problems or other issues. They shoot from a bench at practice but do not compete. We are getting three guys together to run a relay so they can compete, even if it's just with themselves. F-Class rules would prevent them any records with the NRA, but I believe it is up to the match director as to what they will allow at the match. I say let them shoot. Until some able body person tries to take advantage of it, if it give somebody a chance to shoot that otherwise would not, its a good idea. Maybe somebody should ask the NRA for a separate class. That's how F-Class got started in the first place.

 

[spclark]

Courtesy is a character trait sadly lacking in the general population of late.

That a 'challenged' shooter was made to feel unwelcome at an established range for a scheduled match is IMHO appaling.

Since taking up this sport a little over 10 years ago I've come to feel shooters in general (there are one or two I admit I'd rather not be around much) are the finest, most respectful individuals I've ever known.

I simply can't imagine how a shooter overcoming multiple challenges to participate in a match could possibly have sufferd the indignity you've described.

One gentleman I've made the acquaintance of (who shall go unnamed here) has been to Whittington Center, Camp Perry for the Nationals, and Winnequah Gun Club (Lodi, WI) at the same time as myself and has universally been treated as a fellow competitor despite his challenges. I've shot on his position, had the honor of pulling targets in his stead, and look forward to our next meeting up.

Were he - or anyone like him - to be treated in a similar manner, my match entry also would be pulled.

Barring a genuine safety issue there's simply no reason for such an incident to occur.

 

[Hombre0321]

There are several older gentlemen at our club that have neck problems or other issues. They shoot from a bench at practice but do not compete. We are getting three guys together to run a relay so they can compete, even if it's just with themselves. F-Class rules would prevent them any records with the NRA, but I believe it is up to the match director as to what they will allow at the match. I say let them shoot. Until some able body person tries to take advantage of it, if it give somebody a chance to shoot that otherwise would not, its a good idea. Maybe somebody should ask the NRA for a separate class. That's how F-Class got started in the first place.

NRA rules do allow them to shoot now, and to have there scores and be classified just like any other non handicapped shooter. NRA Rule 13 covers this pretty well. The shooter is going to have to provide proof that they need this, but it is available "Now".


In the case I spoke to about this past weekend, there was no special anything asked for at all. No rule bending, no special rules, nothing like that at all. This particular shooter would not have asked nor would he have accepted anything that was not available to every other shooter on the range that day. The berm where the 1,000 yd line was shot from was around 75' wide, it had a covered firing line and concrete bench's like you would find at any Long Range Benchrest Match. It also was around 25 or 30 feet above the road. That road to go up the berm to provide, and I assume here, access for at minimum of unloading your gear went directly behind the firing line covered area. The problem was that the Match Director singled out ( I saw him speak to no other shooter) this handicapped ( damn there is that word again) shooter only wanted to drive up this road so as not to have to walk up that 25 or 30 foot berm as getting up that berm was impossible due to his injury. He did not want to park there, he had someone with him who was going to remove the pickup down to the area at the bottom of the berm.

The man was singled out, and called out in front of all or any shooter who was in listening distance. The fact that there were about 8 or nine trucks up on that berm parked at the end of the covered area, and two parked directly behind the firing line didn't seem to matter. The fact that every competitor had driven up on that berm to unload there gear didn't quite fit with the Match Directors complaint that trucks driving on the road were eroding it.

Sorry guys I guess I am ranting or maybe venting. This got to me in a way most things never would have. Thank every one for there comments, I find this whole thing to be so against every other experience I have ever heard of. Some of the ranges I shoot at they go out of there way to make you feel welcome, two examples of that are Oak Ridge, Tn and Memphis, TN. At both of these clubs they are glad to see you appreciate your coming and do anything possible to make everyones shoot as pleasent as possible. To find the opposite was more than a rude awakening.

Roland

 

[RStewart]

The range that treated this shooter that way should be ashamed of themselves! That's all I can say.

 

[Mark Walker in TX]

You should have a man to man chat with the match director... That's unacceptable.

I am one of several people that call matches at Bayou Rifles, and if I ever see another director or individual treat anyone that way, I'll personally throw their asses off the line for the day.

 

[alton9]

Hombre,
I would find this unacceptable too. I'd have to second the notion to have a talk with the match director. I have to wonder, maybe this range should seek a new match director? I'd like to think this type behavior would not be tolerated at my local club/range.
Alton9

 

[Nodak7mm]

The range that treated this shooter that way should be ashamed of themselves! That's all I can say.

I could say a lot more, but the point has been made...

Thanks Roland for providing details...