Should LV and HV Classes Be Merged?

[Shooter13]

Going back to the original question that the original post asked.

At the just completed Super Shoot, which had a good turnout, it would be interesting to know how many shooters used an actual Heavy Varmint in the 13.5 lb class, or simply just shot their 10.5 pound Light Varmint?

I took an impromptu survey at the Texas State Light Varmint/Sporter at New Braunfels two weeks ago, and not one shooter shot a “Sporter”. The vast majority simply shot the same Light Varmint Rifle for the entire event.

Well, would that be that they don't have a 13.5 lb gun? I don't have a 10.5 lb gun but just purchased a BAT DS on a Scarborough stock that I'm sure could make 10.5 lbs but for me the question would be why? May just sell it and move on as I have 2 BATs that need "buildin'" ;-)

 

[Greg@wfcustom]

Simply changing a LV rifle to HV with putting a HV bbl on it makes for a nose heavy and ill handling rifle, IME. The other way around works ok but I'm not a fan of just using a heavier bbl. It may be done but I don't know of anyone doing it that way, myself. A separate weight system in the butt would make it more workable if all the details are worked out with doing that in mind. It may be more common than I realize but I don't know of anyone doing it. There used to be a few and may still be.

Hey Mike,
I build all my SBR rifles with a weight system, and with the right setup you don't even need to change barrels. With my "Palma" taper barrels, your tuner and a 1"- 1.25" hole in the ass end it's easy to go from 10.5 to 13.5 lbs. Tungsten is your friend, just a bitch to machine. I usually set them up to be just a tad front heavy in LV and they end up balancing well maybe a bit butt heavy in HV configuration, but they sure seem to shoot well that way.
Make sure the weight is securely attached to the buttplate or things can get interesting.
Ask me how I know that!
G

 

[Greg@wfcustom]

Going back to the original question that the original post asked.

At the just completed Super Shoot, which had a good turnout, it would be interesting to know how many shooters used an actual Heavy Varmint in the 13.5 lb class, or simply just shot their 10.5 pound Light Varmint?

I took an impromptu survey at the Texas State Light Varmint/Sporter at New Braunfels two weeks ago, and not one shooter shot a “Sporter”. The vast majority simply shot the same Light Varmint Rifle for the entire event.

We have the same experience at our matches out here on the Left Coast.
No one shoots a Sporter, almost all the "newbies" just shoot their LV in all the classes in Group, and we shoot more UBR Score matches then NBRSA to attract the guys with only 1 (usually a 6PPC LV) gun to shoot. They like the idea of the equal playing field.
I shoot my 13.5 lb 30BR in Score just because I love the cartridge, but wouldn't want to shoot it in a 10.5 lb
gun. I think I've become a sissy when it comes to recoil. To must Rimfire I guess.
G

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Hey Mike,
I build all my SBR rifles with a weight system, and with the right setup you don't even need to change barrels. With my "Palma" taper barrels, your tuner and a 1"- 1.25" hole in the ass end it's easy to go from 10.5 to 13.5 lbs. Tungsten is your friend, just a bitch to machine. I usually set them up to be just a tad front heavy in LV and they end up balancing well maybe a bit butt heavy in HV configuration, but they sure seem to shoot well that way.
Make sure the weight is securely attached to the buttplate or things can get interesting.
Ask me how I know that!
G

Basically, same here. I like how you think anyway.

 

[Schippergreg]

Going back to the original question that the original post asked.

At the just completed Super Shoot, which had a good turnout, it would be interesting to know how many shooters used an actual Heavy Varmint in the 13.5 lb class, or simply just shot their 10.5 pound Light Varmint?

I took an impromptu survey at the Texas State Light Varmint/Sporter at New Braunfels two weeks ago, and not one shooter shot a “Sporter”. The vast majority simply shot the same Light Varmint Rifle for the entire event.

I can’t give you a number of shooters with a light and heavy gun but there was a lot of tables that had 2 rifles sitting in cradles. I think eliminating a class would only lessen the number of shooters at a match.

 

[jackieschmidt]

I can’t give you a number of shooters with a light and heavy gun but there was a lot of tables that had 2 rifles sitting in cradles. I think eliminating a class would only lessen the number of shooters at a match.

I’m not advocating removing a class. I am just pointing out a reality.
When the NBRSA decided to lessen all of the stock restrictions and barrel profile rules in Sporter, they doomed the class by keeping it at 10.5 pounds.

 

[BoydAllen]

Some of you might want to review this, especially the ones who do not shoot group that often.

Short Range Group World Records - National Bench Rest Shooters Association

NBRSA World Records for Short Range Group Shooting – Centerfire Single Groups Unlimited Heavy Varmint Light Varmint Sporter 5 Shot, 100 yd 0.049 in Gary Ocock 10.17.2009 0.027 in Ralph Landon 09.13.1975 0.0077 in Mike Stinnett 06.08.2013 0.041 in Jerry Thornbrugh 10.21.1978 5 Shot, 200 yd 0.0846...

www.nbrsa.org

 

[BoydAllen]

And the grand aggregates here:

Group Records

internationalbenchrest.com

 

[rayporter]

at the Arkansas shoots we have had a couple of guys with F class rifles come shoot with us when we had unlimited and heavy on Saturday. raising the wt on sporter would open a lot of rifles to be shot.

 

[Tim Singleton]

The difficulty of winning a 2-Gun aggregate is what attracts some

Eliminating the LV or combining it would wreck the whole thing in my opinion

 

[afrench]

at the Arkansas shoots we have had a couple of guys with F class rifles come shoot with us when we had unlimited and heavy on Saturday. raising the wt on sporter would open a lot of rifles to be shot.

I proposed a change to the Gulf Coast Regional Director that would leave all of the rules in place as they are for the sporter class, but raise the weight limit to 13.5 lbs. He presented it to the shooters in attendance at the Bluebonnet several weeks ago. It got zero support. None.
Since it essentially died at the regional level, it won't be presented at the nationals.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

I proposed a change to the Gulf Coast Regional Director that would leave all of the rules in place as they are for the sporter class, but raise the weight limit to 13.5 lbs. He presented it to the shooters in attendance at the Bluebonnet several weeks ago. It got zero support. None.
Since it essentially died at the regional level, it won't be presented at the nationals.

It'll never happen....not in my lifetime. At least you brought it up.

 

[Shooter13]

It'll never happen....not in my lifetime. At least you brought it up.

A mistake I would think.

 

[std7mag]

Regarding @Forum Boss posting, I think this will only matter to people that are shooting in the Sanctioned matches, withing the sanctioning bodies.


Trying to grow the sport outside of the sanctioning bodies (IE local matches) to me would be where we can focus more attention to be able to grow.

Even local unsanctioned matches are extremely competitive. But luckily, not to the point that the competitors are unwelcoming.
I enjoy the local matches for the shooting and comradery.
("We are having a get together for lunch. Oh, by the way, there will be shooting there, also.")
But we have to remember.
Not all of us have the aspirations of becoming National Match Shooters.


The limiting factors for me are
1)Time
2)Expense

Working 50-60 hours a week, time is extremely short to be able to do the load development, and then just reloading, along with rifle maintenance to shoot as often as I would like.
Add to that the days taken to go shoot the matches.
The Honey Do List doesn't get any shorter when we are spending the day shooting.

As to expense.
I showed up at both a F-Open match, and a short range Benchrest match with my hunting rifles.
With the advice that "if I wanted to be competitive, I needed to buy a KNOWN winning Benchrest rifle in 6BR".

YEAAAHHHHH.... THAT ain't about to happen!!

So I decided that with me liking the sport enough, I would build my own BR rifle. Stuck still with the price on getting a stock.

One of the drawbacks for me is that even though I may rebarrel a rifle with a sporter contour barrel, it puts me in the custom class.

I can take a factory barreled action, change the trigger, stock, and optics (10-50X60 Sightron SIII in this case) have the rifle weigh 14lbs, and still be "factory".
But screw another sporter barrel on it, and instantly be shooting against rifles with a 1.25" barrel designed specifically for Benchrest competition.

 

[Peterson1]

I think this thread found the "Solution" to a "non existent problem"!!!!!!!!

 

[Silo1616]

I think this thread found the "Solution" to a "non existent problem"!!!!!!!!

"non existent problem"!!!!!!!! Really: NBRSA has barley over a 1,000 members, the web site is hopelessly outdated, a non existent Social Media presence and a magazine on life support. Other than that, things are peachy keen.

 

[jackieschmidt]

I proposed a change to the Gulf Coast Regional Director that would leave all of the rules in place as they are for the sporter class, but raise the weight limit to 13.5 lbs. He presented it to the shooters in attendance at the Bluebonnet several weeks ago. It got zero support. None.
Since it essentially died at the regional level, it won't be presented at the nationals.

I think most of us there figured it would be dead on arrival.

But I for one appreciate your bringing it up.

 

[D Coots]

How about the real issue that needs to take place, merging the two organizations?

Forget a bandaid, go right to the full operation.

 

[sr67]

Not to be rude in any way. Looks like it's slowly dying out. And, there is a bit of arrogance on the part those of who know how to tune well and work the technical side of things well. Me included to some degree.

But.. jump into a 3 gun or PRS match and see just how hard it really is. PRS takes some serious skill to do well. They just don't regulate the H*ll out of everything which makes the barrier to entry lower. I would not change my loading approach much if I were to go for PRS. I still want serious accuracy. Also, there are a lot of F Open guys that are shooting darn near bench groups these days. Oh well. Not changing it. Bench is such a great sport with and old set of rules. Let's see what it looks like in 10 years. 20 old rich guys shooting from custom benches on private property wrangling for HOF points.

 

[AlNyhus]

How about the real issue that needs to take place, merging the two organizations?

Forget a bandaid, go right to the full operation.

Amen, buddy. I've been a supporter of this for a long time. It's interesting that virtually all IBS and NBRSA members I talk with support this.