Should F-class shooters be required to pull targets?
- Thread starter Mozella
- Start date
Yeah, also what Joe R said. I was at a match at Bayou recently, and got off balance on the stool while pulling the target, and fell backwards, behind the target to my left and hit my ribs on the bench nailed to the back wall. I'm fairly fit, and last Spring ran a 33:15 5K, which was best for people over 65. My balance is compromised, though, and I also recently had an operation to my shooting eye, and a fall like that could end my budding F/TR career! If I don't have a puller, I'm not safe, since an injury to an old duffer will throw the shoot/score/pull rotation out of kilter.
Our club in Saskatchewan Canada, the SPRA, pays a crew made up from Beavers out of Regina (like scouts but younger) $1000 per weekend and we have 7 targets. This money comes from the entry fees, $40 per day Cdn.
Short answer NO. We play a shooting sport not a physical conditioning sport. I put pop-up tents on the line if it is going to be anything close to hot or rain for the LR matches. Reason being I want people to be able to shoot. Because of this we've gotten people to comeback out shooting because A.) they don't have to pull because of the SMT's and B.) they don't have to worry about heat related issues. The benefits of this is many shooters are shooting better scores now than they did last year. It makes matches more competitive. Even if we had to pull targets if I had a shooter who physically can't pull a target (and I do have a couple) I have no issue if they don't as long as their puller is fine with it. In many cases I would squad with the people that couldn't.
Shawn,
If I read you correct you answer is no, however you have set it up so it is the same/fair for everyone. I think that is what most of us are getting at.
F Classers who think the shouldn't have to pull,
Hypothetical situation(that we all know is coming)
How would the average competitor handle it if a group of able bodies guys showed up to a regional and brought pullers when no one else had them? They sit in the truck cooling off and hydrating, maybe tweeking their rifles while the Hoi P'loy are in the pits. You think there might be some bitching? Maybe a challange? Be honest, I know half of you and have heard it over much less....
Edit: I wanted to add, we have a lot of Grand Seniors who shoot with us. Our old target frames worked pretty easy and I never really saw an issue with most GSs working the pits. Of course, DanB, JimM, etc are pretty fit guys. That said, our new carriers are significantly harder to work. I could see having to change my way of thinking if this becomes an issue. Also, if a shooter such as Bob Depp was coming out and asked for a puller, I would move heaven and earth to find him a puller. That dudes one of my hero's though. He exemplifies " never give up".
The names of the shooters have been abbreviated to protect the identities of the not-so innocent. Except Bob Depp, who's a hero and needs no protection.
If I read you correct you answer is no, however you have set it up so it is the same/fair for everyone. I think that is what most of us are getting at.
F Classers who think the shouldn't have to pull,
Hypothetical situation(that we all know is coming)
How would the average competitor handle it if a group of able bodies guys showed up to a regional and brought pullers when no one else had them? They sit in the truck cooling off and hydrating, maybe tweeking their rifles while the Hoi P'loy are in the pits. You think there might be some bitching? Maybe a challange? Be honest, I know half of you and have heard it over much less....
Edit: I wanted to add, we have a lot of Grand Seniors who shoot with us. Our old target frames worked pretty easy and I never really saw an issue with most GSs working the pits. Of course, DanB, JimM, etc are pretty fit guys. That said, our new carriers are significantly harder to work. I could see having to change my way of thinking if this becomes an issue. Also, if a shooter such as Bob Depp was coming out and asked for a puller, I would move heaven and earth to find him a puller. That dudes one of my hero's though. He exemplifies " never give up".
The names of the shooters have been abbreviated to protect the identities of the not-so innocent. Except Bob Depp, who's a hero and needs no protection.
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Chris,
Bob was the one I was referring to. As he has started coming up to our place because of the e-targets. Plus we have a couple other shooters with back injuries that can't pull a target in their 50s. In general I do understand what your saying that it needs to be even. However if we were still pulling targets and someone said I can't pull and I brought a puller I'd let it go.
Bob was the one I was referring to. As he has started coming up to our place because of the e-targets. Plus we have a couple other shooters with back injuries that can't pull a target in their 50s. In general I do understand what your saying that it needs to be even. However if we were still pulling targets and someone said I can't pull and I brought a puller I'd let it go.
Wow, this thread has been going on for a while...I personally prefer to pull targets. In fact, when i would have a choice I will use my Bullseye camera or shoot on a friends Silver Mountain but in practice. They are terrific in practice. In a match there i a lot of intelligence which comes from pulling targets. for one, if you are on the line and there is a sudden change in wind velocity or direction you can just watch the pits and see all of the shots coming up off center and then yu know the value of the wind...I like the comraderie that comes with scoring, shooting, and yes, pulling targets. Working your turn in the pits is where you eat lunch, have wonderful conversations and even learn a thing or two.
Also whether you pull your own or pay someone, you are still responsible for that puller's actions. ( unless the whole pit crew markers are paid and part of the match entry). The guy or gal represents you. I've seen a shooter get mad at hi scores on the 300 yd line at Camp Perry and walk off. He was UNinvited back, and DONE for that year's nationals. You can sit out your turn to shoot if you want and DNF, but if you do not pull the target for the next guy, you are in a little trouble.
Courtesy? Absolutely. Try and be the best, most accurate, and fastest pit service possible! Maybe the next guy will remember you and do you a solid too.
Also whether you pull your own or pay someone, you are still responsible for that puller's actions. ( unless the whole pit crew markers are paid and part of the match entry). The guy or gal represents you. I've seen a shooter get mad at hi scores on the 300 yd line at Camp Perry and walk off. He was UNinvited back, and DONE for that year's nationals. You can sit out your turn to shoot if you want and DNF, but if you do not pull the target for the next guy, you are in a little trouble.
Courtesy? Absolutely. Try and be the best, most accurate, and fastest pit service possible! Maybe the next guy will remember you and do you a solid too.
I don't mind pulling at all, The 300 yard matches I attend the shooters pull and score in the pits when there is only 2 relays, 20 minutes to swap. Now imagine the time it would take to switch 4 relays for a long range comp, you could easily burn 40 minutes each swap. It's just not practical.
I understand that pit changes take time, but I do not understand how it can or should take 40 minutes? Please explain.
As for pulling targets this is my 50 th year of competing through OTC shooting long range palma and I have always pulled targets Last year at the berger match I had fallen Slipped on some Ice just before we left for the match my ribs were plenty sore so I asked for a puller.Mechille saw to it that I got A puller I am here to tell you that not having to pull targets makes for a much more enjoyable day. It also helps your shooting.
For whateaver that is worth
Earl L
For whateaver that is worth
Earl L
1000 yards isn't far for somebody in good shape but not every one in the sport is 25 or in good shape.
You guys walk? You're kidding...
Out too 600 yes, I have been at matches where we use the get away sticks back and forth. for 8.9,1000 no Those matches have pullers, I guess each range is different and depends if there is a safe place to ditch cars.
You guys and gals should come to Lodi some time. Some of you have and we have across the course, Palma, long range, F Class and electronic targets - so you do not have to go to the pits to pull any targets. Our matches are even for everybody. You also miss the "bus ride" back and forth, and all the dust while eating your sandwich. I can't see how that won't make your match better and more. I used to pull targets while shooting at any other match we attended and I still would, however, if another club sponsor would tell me a puller was available and I wanted one, I would gladly pay for one!. All the shooting information you would get in the pits is always available behind the line without having to be bothered by pulling and marking those damn targets. (they get in the way of the BS and then you get called for a mark - now you are a bad target puller).
Earl/Karin
Earl/Karin
The entry fee gets a puller now thanks to Earl. When available about 20- 25 per man on a firing point plus a tip if they did the job well. I've paid boys to set up the match and break it down so everyone benefited and a few made $120 or more by the end of the day. But if you recruit kids then you have take care of them as well.
Many Clubs are going to Electronic Scoring, nobody pulls targets. End of controversy.
Don't rightly know? But, a year or so ago, Team Berger was shooting a team match and Larry was collecting $25.00 each from us for a puller, $100 for two team matches. I recall saying to him, "To hell with shooting...I want to pull targets for that amount of money!" But, I wound up having to shoot (and to pay).
And a whole new controversy opens up.
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