You could also argue that it's unfair for some rich shooters to have $6000 rifles with $2500 scopes. Then we end up shooting like in Norway, where everyone has to shoot one of three standard, off-the-shelf rifles. Not a bad system but quite a bit different from what we're used to in the US.
Should F-class shooters be required to pull targets?
- Thread starter Mozella
- Start date
I remember being with a team that took a bunch of juniors to Perry. Several of them disappeared, didn't show up for their matches. Turned out they got offered some money to pull targets and took the cash rather than shooting their matches. Their coach was so pissed off!
Isn't shooting wonderful.
I've pulled targets in the past no problem. But things are no longer what they once were even though I'm not all that old. Four damaged discs, serious illnesses, two hospital stays in the last two months and poly myalgia rheumatica. When those who say that pulling targets is a required duty to preserve the purity of the sport, what I hear is you don't want to give the opportunity to some dinged up old fart (me) to shoot. You forget that the whole idea behind F and F/TR was to allow folks who could no longer physically able to compete in traditional across the course and so forth the opportunity to continue to shoot.
The arguments about using a puller to cheat are specious at best, if a shooter brings his own puller, the puller does not pull his sponsors target.
The arguments about using a puller to cheat are specious at best, if a shooter brings his own puller, the puller does not pull his sponsors target.
Agreed. The old farts should always be welcomed. Matches are the best opportunity for the older shooters to share their wit and wisdom with the younger shooters. We should never make them feel unwelcome.
Revisiting the initial post and the comments on PGA golfers. Professional golf is a professional sport. It is a commercial enterprise just like any other professional sport.Not just anyone can compete, need that tour card, earned and issued in extremely limited numbers. The amount of money involved is enormous. The PGA tour certainly doesn't have elderly or disabled players. There is the Senior Tour for those with marketable names that can no longer compete in the regular tour. Once again, no elderly or disabled players.
So the comparison between an exclusive professional sport and an inclusive recreational sport is completely invalid.
So the comparison between an exclusive professional sport and an inclusive recreational sport is completely invalid.
It is what you say it is Rust. Last year a great shooter we know taught a few of us a lesson in real greatness as a sportsman. We wasn't called for a earned trophy at the awards ceremony and stopped his companion from protesting for the sake of a new match directors embarrassment. He told his friend " this is just a game" We know him as Dec if you know him.
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I'm sorry to hear that. Hope you make it back on the good days just to show them boys how to play the game! We had a local named George Johnson that skinned the sling boys up until his 90's. I mean skinned us all ! What a machine!!
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Turbulent Turtle
F-TR competitor
I seem to remember some years back a kerfuffle about a PGA player who wanted to use a cart because he was in fact, disabled. He had a problem walking the distance. It even went to the Supremes for a ruling and they said he could use a cart even though this was really not their purview to judge.
A quick Internet Bing search shows the ruling was in 2001, for a player called Casey Martin. This was 15 years ago.
Here is my take .
As long as the rules for the shoot stated you have to pull targets it is good .
As a shooter I would have a choice to go or not.
I would think the shoot would offer other opinions. Larry
Good conversation guys. I thought this thread was dead but you guys are interesting. As competitors we research opportunity and NRA matches require a participation in the work detail. If unable then bring help. It's a given that you will pull at a NRA match. That's part of the fun busy (well ran) match. Makes winning what it is!
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Alex Wheeler
Site $$ Sponsor
When I do shoot a match it is for fun. Pit duty is not fun for me. Enough that it would cause me to skip some matches. We have pits for our 1k br matches. If it was up to me we'd shoot clay birds to sight in then go for record. I HATE pit duty 
Ned Ludd
Silver $$ Contributor
That would be a very weak argument and really not pertinent to this discussion. However, the way it's supposed to work here is that individuals figure out they don't like being poor and unable to afford nice stuff. That gives them motivation to work harder and save to buy what they want. It also usually means they take good care of it once they have it because they have a very good idea of what it cost in real terms.
This thread started out asking whether F-Class shooters should be required to pull targets, with comments from sling shooters later chiming in. I'll try to be brief with some additional thoughts. Having started competitive shooting with indoor smallbore in high school in the early '60s, I really didn't know anything about pulling targets until starting XTC shooting in 1982. At that time, I was much younger, and it seemed all of the other highpower shooters were fit, and more than able to pull targets. I don't remember any matches where someone had a paid puller. Did occasionally see some shooters who could not effectively pull targets, but they were usually squadded with someone who pretty much could pull by themselves, and didn't mind doing so. Even then, the "disadvantaged" shooter always went to the pits and did what they could. We now fast forward to current times. I find that I cannot pull targets as well as I use to, and notice that many of todays shooters are aging, with health issues that affect their ability to pull targets "responsibly". All of us wish we could give service like 20-30 years ago. With all this in mind, I do not begrudge anyone for seeking out a puller. However, I have attended some matches where some shooters hire pullers, seemingly for their convenience, when they seem perfectly capable of doing pit duty. Shooting any high power discipline that requires pulling pits is just part of that game. However, anyone that is capable to occupy the firing line and compete, should not be "belittled" for using a paid puller if he/she cannot perform that duty effectively.
As much as I appreciate capitalism, I also appreciate rifle matches that leave the shooter in charge of his own equipment but distinguish between in classes in ways that acknowledge that a shooter scoring a 195/200 with a $1000 rifle has accomplished more than another guy shooting the same score with a $4000 rifle.
So, how many classes would you like to see?
I'm happy with F-Class the way it is now. There are enough distinctions and divisions (F-Open, F-TR, MA, HM, Sr, Civ, Jr, etc.) I was not so much expressing a desire for change as an appreciation for the fact that not every kind of rifle match has the same kinds of divisions. I appreciate the weight and "factory/custom" type division and distinctions of other competitions, as well as those that set a maximum scope magnification and things of this sort.
My biggest concern with every shooting discipline is not introducing requirements which function as barriers to participation. Requiring f-class shooters to pull targets (without substitutes) IS a barrier to participation.
Having $4k rifles competing alongside of factory hunting rifles is NOT a barrier to participation unless other competitors demonstrate an elitist attitude suggesting that those who can't keep it in the 10 (or 9) ring don't belong there. Safety requirements dictate that shooters need to be able to keep it on the 6'x6' piece of paper (at least after a couple sighters). Beyond that, I'd prefer the cost of the rifle not be a barrier to participation.
Most club matches are very welcoming to unclassified shooters and those with lower classifications (MK and SS). I have seen some hints of more elitist attitudes surrounding state and regional championships they might be viewed as a barrier to participation to shooters with less expensive equipment and lower classifications. I've also seen attitudes expressed along the lines of "if a beginner can't progress to MA of HM scores in a year or two, they shouldn't bother." This is unfortunate. Given the size of the 10 ring, I think taking a few years to reach Expert level scores is just fine.
Isn't it like throwing Granny off the cliff .
30 or more years someone has made and kept you shooting sport alive .
Now he has gotten too old to pull targets.
He can't have a target puller.
What wrong with the thinking .
Larry
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