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Should F-class shooters be required to pull targets?

As much as I appreciate capitalism, I also appreciate rifle matches that leave the shooter in charge of his own equipment but distinguish between in classes in ways that acknowledge that a shooter scoring a 195/200 with a $1000 rifle has accomplished more than another guy shooting the same score with a $4000 rifle.

Why? This sport acknowledges achievement, not how much was spent on the equipment that was used to generate the achievement. That is life in the real world. There has to be some measure of output, which in this case is the score. Who's to say exactly how a score shot with lesser equipment really compares to a score shot with more expensive equipment? How do you know exactly how much was the equipment and how much was the shooter? Compared to beginners, far more high level shooters are willing to spend significant dollar amounts on equipment because they know their skill level warrants the use of such equipment. I can further guarantee that you can put the most expensive, top-dollar F-Open or F-TR rig in the hands of a complete beginner and they're not going to shoot great scores with it. On the other hand, I've seen plenty of cases where shooters won matches without having the most expensive equipment on the line, because they were very good shooters. Who's to say whether a 195-5X shot with a $2000 setup is equal to, or better than a 200-12X shot with a $7500 setup? It's an output you simply can't quantify with any degree of accuracy and it's why socialist ideas usually fail in the long run, because they tend not to have a quantifiable output. It's easy to say, "Well, wouldn't it be great if we could do this?" However, it's most often the case that there is no good way to actually determine whether it was great or not. Some kind of quantifiable output is an absolute requirement to assess results, whether they are the results of a shooting match, or the results of a new approach to some problem, or anything else. We use score as that output, because it works. What's next, should we adjust a shooter's score based on the kind of reloading press they have? Once you go down this road, it will never end.
 
What's next, should we adjust a shooter's score based on the kind of reloading press they have? Once you go down this road, it will never end.

No one is suggesting this rule for F-Class, but distinctions between factory and custom rifles at various levels have been in place and worked well for years in various bench rest and other disciplines without leading to an endless equipment categorizations.

Thus your prognostication is unjustified: disproven by counter example.
 
No one is suggesting this rule for F-Class, but distinctions between factory and custom rifles at various levels have been in place and worked well for years in various bench rest and other disciplines without leading to an endless equipment categorizations.

Thus your prognostication is unjustified: disproven by counter example.

The fact that you even mentioned it and posted about it suggests otherwise.
 
For those who suggest that everyone get a paid puller, as someone who runs matches, good luck finding enough pullers. Especially younger ones. No video and no buttons to push and they aren't interested. All our pullers are 40+.
 
Shooting f-class for about 4 years (69 years old). I am much more stressed pulling than shooting. If I screw up shooting, heck that's on me. If I screw up pulling well that's hard on some other guy. In my book very bad. I have had excellent pulling days (turn consistently in 6 seconds) and I have had bad days, when I could not see the bullet / berm hit. In a dark hole or weeds. If all ranges had berms that are easy to see hits I am good to go. If you have to hear "bullet crack" or "sense" the shot, I am in trouble. I am a strong supporter of e-targets or paying a puller when available.
 
Shooting f-class for about 4 years (69 years old). I am much more stressed pulling than shooting. If I screw up shooting, heck that's on me. If I screw up pulling well that's hard on some other guy. In my book very bad. ......
At Pascagoula we normally shoot three relays. Two on the line and one in the pits. There is no impact berm and the range faces east. With only one pair of eyes and ears on the target it can be quite difficult. It all depends on feeling the impact of the bullet on the cardboard backing transfer to the carrier. Sometimes those bullets pass through totally unnoticed. In those cases I feel sorry for the poor guy (or gal) I'm pulling targets for.

I think there should be consideration for folks who can't physically keep up with it. If for no other reason than to keep the guy at the firing line from feeling cheated.
 
The day they rule that physically Handicapped Shooters are no longer allowed to compete because that can't "pull targets" or compete at a certain skill level will be the day that I and a lot of other Shooters will exit this sport with a bad taste in or mouth.
Remember everyone gets old at some point in time.
 
The day they rule that physically Handicapped Shooters are no longer allowed to compete because that can't "pull targets" or compete at a certain skill level will be the day that I and a lot of other Shooters will exit this sport with a bad taste in or mouth.
Remember everyone gets old at some point in time.
Or their looking at the wrong did of the grass
Larry
 
The day they rule that physically Handicapped Shooters are no longer allowed to compete because that can't "pull targets" or compete at a certain skill level will be the day that I and a lot of other Shooters will exit this sport with a bad taste in or mouth.
Remember everyone gets old at some point in time.

It's a catch in Fclass with this topic. Created for the need but so highly competitive now that it's a workout to be on the top. I'm OK with that and welcome the young that challenge that. Our average age shows 62 in this and not all the young are at the top. But they will be. Lol
 
It's a catch in Fclass with this topic. Created for the need but so highly competitive now that it's a workout to be on the top. I'm OK with that and welcome the young that challenge that. Our average age shows 62 in this and not all the young are at the top. But they will be. Lol
Ya but just remember the Old Guy's were on the top first.
 
It is a no brainer E-Targets are the go. We have been using them for 9yrs.

E-Targets are awesome when they work, but disappointing and hugely frustrating when they do not. Did you catch the accounts of the big flop at the Alabama F-Class Championship earlier this year?

http://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/alabama-f-class-championship-a-big-flop.3911125/

This failure seemed to be a reprise of the failures one year earlier at the Alabama State Highpower Championship in October 2015.

http://forums.thecmp.org/archive/index.php/t-176510.html
 
Berger I am from down under. ETs require very regular maintenance even to the point of repairs at the end of every day. The electronic box on each target must have a reflective air bubble cover for coolness no direct sun. All frames have velcroed aiming marks with all rings for each distance shot. All pit cables to be placed in a manner that targets can be raised with people not standing on the cables. If shots are not being recorded or are shown on the X from the corners of the target the centres are shot out allowing the wind to interfere with the reading of the shot. In our case this is usually the rear coreflute of the target because front aiming mark is changed for each range. Simple fix glue a rubber square over the rear centre, same rubber as the sound chamber. The enemy for ETs are feet, wind and sun
 
Berger I am from down under. ETs require very regular maintenance even to the point of repairs at the end of every day. The electronic box on each target must have a reflective air bubble cover for coolness no direct sun. All frames have velcroed aiming marks with all rings for each distance shot. All pit cables to be placed in a manner that targets can be raised with people not standing on the cables. If shots are not being recorded or are shown on the X from the corners of the target the centres are shot out allowing the wind to interfere with the reading of the shot. In our case this is usually the rear coreflute of the target because front aiming mark is changed for each range. Simple fix glue a rubber square over the rear centre, same rubber as the sound chamber. The enemy for ETs are feet, wind and sun

Thanks for your insights. I hear that from multiple sources, so I am perplexed (and not encouraged) that the Talladega CMP eTarget problems keep getting blamed on software problems, with the corresponding claim that software fixes have solved them. If it is a hardware problem of the sort you describe, new software is unlikely to fix it.
 
The day they rule that physically Handicapped Shooters are no longer allowed to compete because that can't "pull targets" or compete at a certain skill level will be the day that I and a lot of other Shooters will exit this sport with a bad taste in or mouth.
Remember everyone gets old at some point in time.

I guess you haven't read the NRA rulebook about getting a waiver to pull targets for those who are physically unable to do so.
 
The day they rule that physically Handicapped Shooters are no longer allowed to compete because that can't "pull targets" or compete at a certain skill level will be the day that I and a lot of other Shooters will exit this sport with a bad taste in or mouth.
Remember everyone gets old at some point in time.

I guess you haven't read the NRA rulebook about getting a waiver to pull targets for those who are physically unable to do so.

I dont shoot NRA matches, they have to many rules.

So how exactly do you exit a sport you don't even compete in? Seems like empty rhetoric to me..
 
So how exactly do you exit a sport you don't even compete in? Seems like empty rhetoric to me..

Not sure what you mean. Non-NRA F-Class matches are common events. The Sierra Cup is one example, but lots of clubs have non-NRA F-Class matches to reduce the costs, paperwork, and rules. For various reasons, a lot of the matches in Dec-Mar aren't NRA sanctioned. I don't know if any of Central Alabama Gun Club's F-Class matches are sanctioned.
 

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