see 22 holes @200 in black

[carlsbad]

My tripod is very rigid. that helps a lot. It probably retails for more than the scope. You can find used tripods around as photographers upgrade to lighter stuff. Then you'll need a tripod head. I bought a Manfrotto 502 video head for $200.

Celestron makes very high quality astronomical scopes an they import cheap Chinese inexpensive scopes. I assume your celestron scope in in the latter category but I'm not sure. The cheapest scopes are less than $100. You might find your celestron scope isn't that bad. Clearly it's not a top end scope but the challenge you've described is tough and it may take a very high end scope to overcome it.

the scope I linked above descended from their astronomical line and has very good optics. Some people may be judging all celestron scopes by the cheap import they had as a kid.

In tough conditions and low contrast as you describe, you could upgrade and be disappointed that you still can't see the holes.

--Jerry

 

[akajun]

I want to see the holes to have feedback to work on things.
I might better just skip the matches and practice by myself at 100 and/or with white targets than fire 10 or 20 rounds into space. It feels like dollar a shot dry fire practice. It's complicated but these are low priority matches for me and learning to shoot 10 rounds without seeing each result is not something I really need or want to learn as a skill in itself.

The new rifle is just a wild thought. I'd probably not shoot the matches at all before going that far. Unless I decide I really want it for other purposes anyway!

That would be a mistake imho. Matches are where I picked up tips, asked for help, etc plus you learn to shoot with that match monkey on your back. I learned a lot at matches and now that I'm usually the one winning, I'm the one helping. I coach Juniors mostly but I help analyze adults too. Ask for help at these matches, any good shooter will be more than willing to help.
A dollar a shot?? what are you shooting? I can reload Nosler 77gr seconds with reloader 15 or 8202 for about .26 a round. To be honest, I have shot in the 480's with American Eagle 55gr ball at 200yd matches with a 1/9 barrel and that is less than .50 a round.
But practice would be good too, but you'll need a partner to watch the vapor trail to see all the bullet impacts if that's your goal. Again I will recommend the Daisy air rifle from CMP for about $100 for backyard practice at 25ft or 10yds, whatever targets you buy. Doesn't sound hard but that air rifle is unforgiving if you jerk the trigger or don't follow through.

 

[USMCDOC]

Thanks, this is the answer I don't want but maybe the one I need.
This is probably what most of the guys are doing.

One problem is that my wind reading is still crappy and usually the best chance I have is simply to adjust off the last shot.

I'm wondering about buying a 308 for this and long range and saving the 223 for the middle. Are 30 caliber holes a lot easier?

Just ask this guy how long it took him to go Distinguished with his 30 cal

The 30 cal holes are much easier to see at 200 yards as you would expect. It ain't rocket science, but shootin' the 223 is easier. Just at times harder to see at 200 yards

 

[akajun]

Just ask this guy how long it took him to go Distinguished with his 30 cal

Especially since now he would be competing against ar's with optics.
FWIW I had Issac Mckaskil build me a nice double lugged m1a as a present to myself for going distinguished. I have even shot it a few times in competition but the learning curve for shooting standing with it I was never able to keep up with it. IF I had stuck with it I proably would have gotten it but that still leaves the issues of lower rapid scores. My 600yd prone scores did go up though, due to the longer sight radius I believe.
I have thought about putting a scope on it and trying it again, but I have not gotten around to it yet.

 

[kzin]

Especially since now he would be competing against ar's with optics.
FWIW I had Issac Mckaskil build me a nice double lugged m1a as a present to myself for going distinguished. I have even shot it a few times in competition but the learning curve for shooting standing with it I was never able to keep up with it. IF I had stuck with it I proably would have gotten it but that still leaves the issues of lower rapid scores. My 600yd prone scores did go up though, due to the longer sight radius I believe.
I have thought about putting a scope on it and trying it again, but I have not gotten around to it yet.

I'm not shooting official xtc because I'm not physically capable.

I'm shooting f-class-for-cripples alongside the xtc guys as practice and to support the club.

The 308 would be a savage ftr which I may want for 1000 someday anyway. After my wind reading improves a lot.

 

[akajun]

well that changes things, yes in that case a savage ftr or ruger rpr would be a good idea for prone only. Also consider a new upper for your AR in a match rifle configuration in 6mm or 6.5mm something.

 

[kzin]

well that changes things, yes in that case a savage ftr or ruger rpr would be a good idea for prone only. Also consider a new upper for your AR in a match rifle configuration in 6mm or 6.5mm something.

Would 6.5 make a major difference in seeing the holes?

 

[akajun]

Would 6.5 make a major difference in seeing the holes?

yes, at last months match a guy next to me was shooting a 6 hagar. He could see his holes and so could I. mine in .223 were hit and miss. We both have Kowa's. He shot an awesome 200-15x compared to my 197-11x.
Keep in mind that our eyes and conditions may be better than yours.

 

[wesmce]

yes, at last months match a guy next to me was shooting a 6 hagar. He could see his holes and so could I. mine in .223 were hit and miss. We both have Kowa's. He shot an awesome 200-15x compared to my 197-11x.
Keep in mind that our eyes and conditions may be better than yours.

You might get one of the shoot and see targets that have adhesive on them that is 13 inches to cover black or one about 6 or 6.5 inches tocover 10 ring,you could also get reduced target for 100 yards lot easier to see holes most of the time

 

[wesmce]

You might get one of the shoot and see targets that have adhesive on them that is 13 inches to cover black or one about 6 or 6.5 inches tocover 10 ring,you could also get reduced target for 100 yards lot easier to see holes most of the time

Look at your post again and see you are shooting in a match so it wouldnt work, only in practice

 

[Hammer47]

In good light my Nightforce BR scope set at 42X will generally resolve 22 holes in the black at 200. I do struggle on dim and dingy days.

 

[USMCDOC]

In good light my Nightforce BR scope set at 42X will generally resolve 22 holes in the black at 200. I do struggle on dim and dingy days.

Fine if you using a scope.. but these guys are shootin irons as well!

 

[Hammer47]

Fine if you using a scope.. but these guys are shootin irons as well!

The OP asked in the opening about using a spotter scope so why do you bring up irons? I answered his question.

 

[Bamban]

At our club we shoot 200 walk and paste. To enable us to see holes in the black, we cut out center of the target board the same size as the 9 ring of the SR target. About 8 ft behind the targets we have a frame/posts with 2 clothes lines that run the length od the targets. On those clothes line we hang white sheets held by clothes pins at the corners. Spotting your shots in the black is easy, comes through nice and white through the holes.

Now, if you shot in the white you are on your own. You better know how to call your shots and look for the hole in there.

 

[USMCDOC]

The OP asked in the opening about using a spotter scope so why do you bring up irons? I answered his question.

Spotting scope isn't a rifle scope now is it.. just sayin!

 

[Hammer47]

Spotting scope isn't a rifle scope now is it.. just sayin!

And I am sayin' that it does the same job...weighs less and is more usable than a spotter. When you get done spotting you can always hang it on a rifle right?

 

[kzin]

And I am sayin' that it does the same job...weighs less and is more usable than a spotter. When you get done spotting you can always hang it on a rifle right?

36x 40mm weaver on the rifle gets about the same results as the 39x spotter - can see the holes in white most of the time but in the black only in the best conditions.

I have a new 50x 50mm sightron for f-class that I've only tried once at 200 and it didn't seem any better. will try it some more.

 

[kzin]

At our club we shoot 200 walk and paste. To enable us to see holes in the black, we cut out center of the target board the same size as the 9 ring of the SR target. About 8 ft behind the targets we have a frame/posts with 2 clothes lines that run the length od the targets. On those clothes line we hang white sheets held by clothes pins at the corners. Spotting your shots in the black is easy, comes through nice and white through the holes.

Now, if you shot in the white you are on your own. You better know how to call your shots and look for the hole in there.

Sounds like our basic target setup. I'm shooting an mr52 reduced stapled onto 1 or more SRs. The multiple layers of black can't help.

No way I can add anything feet behind the target. Maybe a bright white paper hung from the back of the board would help a little?

 

[Bamban]

Sounds like our basic target setup. I'm shooting an mr52 reduced stapled onto 1 or more SRs. The multiple layers of black can't help.

No way I can add anything feet behind the target. Maybe a bright white paper hung from the back of the board would help a little?

We cut out the black of the SR target to put the 300 reduced, then I just cut the 10 ring before we staple the MR52. Others cut the entire black of the previous target.

 

[kzin]

We cut out the black of the SR target to put the 300 reduced, then I just cut the 10 ring before we staple the MR52. Others cut the entire black of the previous target.

I'm liking this a lot. Surprised it's not what the guys do by default.
I have an idea from memory the hole in the wood is too big for the mr52 but analytically it doesn't seem likely.
thanks

ps Just noticed your sig. I went into the USAF the year you left