Questions about selling a gun that has to be shipped

[SS427]

This is an elementary question but I need my facts straight. If you sell a gun to someone that has to be shipped, what are the requirements?

Can you go down to UPS and make the arrangements yourself, or do you have to have someone with an FFL licences on your end do this?

My understanding is you can't ship to anyone other than someone that holds an FFL license. Is this correct? Would I have to present a copy of the FFL license to UPS or Fed Ex before they would ship?

If someone was to scan and email me their FFL license, or FAX it to me, what would an offical license even look like?

 

[fdshuster]

Otter: I have bought and sold rifles on this site. When selling, the buyer includes a copy of his FFL for the dealer who will receive the shipment, and usually includes it with the payment. I then address the package to the FFL, and take it to my local FedEx/Kinko's shop. I have the copy of the FFL with me, but to date, have never been asked to produce it. At my location I've never even been questioned about the contents. When I'm the buyer, I get a copy of my dealers FFL to the seller, either including it with the payment, or by faxing, either my doing or the dealer will send the fax. The FFL will be a copy of the dealers Federal Firearms License ( 18 U.S.C. Chapter 44), listing his license number, expiration date, place of business, type of license, etc. Be aware there are some privately owned companies that have shipping locations for UPS and FedEx that will not accept any firearms, or for that matter many firearms related items, like rifle scopes, barrels only, etc. Shipments of long guns can also be handled by the USPS. If selling to a resident of California, the buyer must also include a State form that will be forwarded to the State Attorney General's office in California.

 

[Bulseyetom]

I believe that you can ship to an individual in Ca without any forms, it is just when you ship to a Ca dealer that the shipping dealer has to have the form mentioned above. I too have seldom ever had to show the signed ffl when I ship a rifle but always have it with me. I normally ship USPS. Tom

 

[fdshuster]

Tom: it's my understanding that inter-state shipments of firearms, including all long guns, must be sent to a FFL in the buyers state. Direct shipments to the buyer are a violation of federal law. I am legally able to ship a long gun direct to another resident of my state, but when it crosses state lines, it comes under the Federal requirements.

 

[SS427]

Frank, my next question was going to be what if you shipped within your own state. I'm assuming state laws apply and probably vary by state.

I assume there is some sort of legal obligation for the new owner to register the rifle. I would want to some how "un-register" it from my name in case the weapon was ever used and subsequently discovered in any criminal activity. Any idea how you do this?

 

[fdshuster]

Otter: Just got off the batf web-site trying to sift thru all the legalize: what a mess! Anyway, before I shipped a rifle that I sold on this site to a buyer in California I checked on the batf web-site, under (B) Unlicensed persons, (3) "out-of-state purchases of firearms". In that section it clearly states that inter-state sales are required to go thru a FFL in the buyers home state. My home state (Pa.) does not have any registration of long guns when seller & buyer do a direct sale. If someone buys a long gun from a dealer, then they fill out the state required forms ( no Federal forms to complete), the dealer calls into the instant check phone number and gets the OK. Buyer is then provided with a receipt with the approval number. Supposidly (?) the long gun records are kept on file for 30 days, then destroyed. Ya, I'm sure they are. If wanting to clear the record of who owns the long gun, after selling it, I would go with the buyer and have the dealer do a formal transfer, keeping copies of all the records. I just recently bought a rifle from out of state, thru this site's for sale section, and the seller shipped it to my FFL. When it arrived the dealer did the instant check for the approval.

 

[280man]

Get on the BATF's website all the info is there and you can run a check on the FFL your sending to and make sure its still current.

 

[TX65]

You need to a have a signed copy of the FFL of a dealer in the buyer's home state. You must ship the rifle to the FFL Dealer at the address listed on the front of the FFL. You should verify the FFL being valid with BATF before shipping.

UPS allows rifles and shotguns to be shipped UPS Ground. Handguns must be shipped air. UPS requires that guns be taken to a UPS terminal, not the UPS store which are franchises. Fedex requires all firearms to be shipped priority overnight.

Transfers to residents of your own state that do not go through an FFL need to be Face-To-Face. You would be smart to get a photo copy of their driver's license and have them sign a bill of sale which you should keep for your records. I go an extra step and have the bill of sale declare by signing the items shown on a Form 4473 which I list on the bill of sale. You know "the person declares they are the actual buyer of the firearm", etc.

If you want extra assurance, work with a local FFL and pay them to do a dealer to dealer transfer. In that way, the firearm leaves your legal custody, goes to your local dealer's legal custody who will ship it to the delivering FFL and to the final buyer.

 

[watercam]

Regarding shipment of long guns to California (where I reside and ship and receive regualarly):
An individual may ship directly to an FFL in Calif. directly. No other forms are needed. Just include a copy of your drivers license.Handguns only must be an FFL to FFL transaction.
If an out of state FFL ships to an FFL in CA, THEN AND ONLY THEN must they obtain a form from the Cal. Dept. of Justice before they can ship. There is a one time only version of that certification. Makes no sense to me either but...
Many folks refuse to ship to buyers in CA for fear they will "risk their FFLs". It is not that big a deal as long as everyone knows the deal.
Mike T.

 

[4xforfun]

I believe that you can ship to an individual in Ca without any forms, it is just when you ship to a Ca dealer that the shipping dealer has to have the form mentioned above. I too have seldom ever had to show the signed ffl when I ship a rifle but always have it with me. I normally ship USPS. Tom

You can't send any gun with any kind of paperwork to CA (Canada)!!!

OH...unless you mean that Nancy Pelosi place out west somewhere....8th district or something?????/ ;D ;D

I guess I forget that it actualy exists...outside of my nightmares, of course.


Sorry....MY BAD

 

[SS427]

Thanks for all the advice guys. Much appreciated.

 

[tenring]

I am in the process of selling a collection of Sako rifles. Have taken each one to the post office. They take copy of the buyers FFL, and never question anything. Very efficient.

One thing I do which others should consider: I prepare a receipt addressed to the buyer, with the rifle description including serial number and cost. I sign it and put it inside them box, then e-mail the buyer a copy as well. That way, both of us feel better about the transcaction and the receiving dealer knows who owns the firearm.