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Quarter Bore Resurgence

Lol.. you're ignoring the point. There is no magic shape of brass that is going to let that round hang with a Weatherby Mag without excessive pressure. Do I doubt you're getting that kind of performance from an A.I Bob? No... Do I believe you're doing it anywhere south of 65,000 psi? Also no... Ask the 22 Creedmoor shooters what pressure their 88 grain/3500 fps loads are pushing. They'll give an answer similar to yours.
That sir is why they call it Wildcatting!

The 257 Weatherby never found a great following because it is an extremely overcome cartridge in my opinion!

The Weatherby cannot reach 60,000 psi plus with full cases of magnum powders. It can reach max pressure with less than full cases of some medium burn rate powders.

In fact it needs less than full cases with suitable powders to reach 62,000. Hogdons data displays this. Anything slower than 4831 can't reach 60,000 psi or higher with full cases and the 85 grain bullet I use in my 10 twist for optimum terminal performance down range!

What your missing is the 85 or 100 grain bullets I used in my 1-10 twist, could do the same thing at 62,000 psi. The only differance was I only needed about 15 grains less of the same powder to do the same job.

I'm sorry, but if you use the same powder, at the same pressure, to push the same wieght bullet, in the same length and bore barrel, you are going to get nearly the same velocity! But you now have enough pressure in both to get optimum velocity and accuracy!

SLOWER BURNING POWDER DOES NOT BURN CONSISTENT AT LESS THAN HIGHER PRESSURES! 60,000 plus!

Once you have more case than you can completely fill, you are overcome, and any smaller case that can use the same powder to reach the same pressure with the same bullets will out perform the overcome case!!

No I was not over 65,000 psi, I unsure you R-P brass would not hold up to those pressures for 4 or 5 loadings, let alone not encounter stiffer bolt lift. Primer pockets would be weak after one or 2 firings. But now that I have 8x57 Lapua brass to work with, I have other signs of to much pressure I will have to watch for.

Again, variables are many, and understanding as many as possible is requiered to understand total performance, as well as safe and successful WILDCATTING, or just plain efficient safe and best performance when reloading!
 
I was always disappointed when Winchester came out with the WSM line of cartridges, I was excited to get my hands on a 25 WSM and then they went WSSM after the 270 WSM and killed that idea. Not to worry, I have a 25 Saum improved in the works. Kind of forget all about that craving until recently. Ive owned and lover a few 25-06s but the only quarter bore I currently have us a 25x47L, it gets a steady diet of BIB 110s. The Saum is being built for 110-120 grain bullets, I’m wanting to get a 110 Accubond or ballistic tip out at speed.
I like the idea of a 25x47L and think it might be a perfect choice for bullets under 115 grains. Just curious to what kind of velocity and twist is your 25x47L.

I ask because I built a 6mm AI a couple years ago on a 1-8 twist for 108's and ended up with to much cartridge for the job!

I found out why 3000 to 3100 fps is the sweet spot for 600 yard competitors using the needed 8 twist barrel to use this wieght range of 6mm bullets.

Running them faster proved not optimum for accuracy. This was later explained to me by Randy Robinett. These bullets just won't perform under the stress of spinning them faster than the smaller cases were capable of pushing them.

I think it was accurate as most of the cartridges used for 600 yard competition, as long as I ran the at the velocity those cartridges push them at. Which is a maximum rpm they will tolerate before being compromised.

For me the 25 cal. has always been all about being a superior big game caliber to the 6mm for medium big game, and just as good for varmint, but superior to a 6.5 for that application, while handling just as big of game as well as the 6.5 is suited for.

Covering that gamut of hunting situations from top to bottom better than either one of them can.

I am not sure it can unseat the 6mm for 600 yard competition, but if it can, it's not going to be with the largest cartridges.

I say this because spinning those 135 or bigger bullets are only going to tolleratrbso many rpms before they see the same compromises on bullet integrity the 6mm's did. Personally I believe anything over 3100 fps is going to bring less than the most efficient capacity to have a chance to unseat the 6mm.
 
That sir is why they call it Wildcatting!

The 257 Weatherby never found a great following because it is an extremely overcome cartridge in my opinion!

The Weatherby cannot reach 60,000 psi plus with full cases of magnum powders. It can reach max pressure with less than full cases of some medium burn rate powders.

In fact it needs less than full cases with suitable powders to reach 62,000. Hogdons data displays this. Anything slower than 4831 can't reach 60,000 psi or higher with full cases and the 85 grain bullet I use in my 10 twist for optimum terminal performance down range!

What your missing is the 85 or 100 grain bullets I used in my 1-10 twist, could do the same thing at 62,000 psi. The only differance was I only needed about 15 grains less of the same powder to do the same job.

I'm sorry, but if you use the same powder, at the same pressure, to push the same wieght bullet, in the same length and bore barrel, you are going to get nearly the same velocity! But you now have enough pressure in both to get optimum velocity and accuracy!

SLOWER BURNING POWDER DOES NOT BURN CONSISTENT AT LESS THAN HIGHER PRESSURES! 60,000 plus!

Once you have more case than you can completely fill, you are overcome, and any smaller case that can use the same powder to reach the same pressure with the same bullets will out perform the overcome case!!

No I was not over 65,000 psi, I unsure you R-P brass would not hold up to those pressures for 4 or 5 loadings, let alone not encounter stiffer bolt lift. Primer pockets would be weak after one or 2 firings. But now that I have 8x57 Lapua brass to work with, I have other signs of to much pressure I will have to watch for.

Again, variables are many, and understanding as many as possible is requiered to understand total performance, as well as safe and successful WILDCATTING, or just plain efficient safe and best performance when reloading!


You're citing pressures. How do you know? What kind of speed are you getting from 100 grain bullets?
 
I like the idea of a 25x47L and think it might be a perfect choice for bullets under 115 grains. Just curious to what kind of velocity and twist is your 25x47L.

I ask because I built a 6mm AI a couple years ago on a 1-8 twist for 108's and ended up with to much cartridge for the job!

I found out why 3000 to 3100 fps is the sweet spot for 600 yard competitors using the needed 8 twist barrel to use this wieght range of 6mm bullets.

Running them faster proved not optimum for accuracy. This was later explained to me by Randy Robinett. These bullets just won't perform under the stress of spinning them faster than the smaller cases were capable of pushing them.

I think it was accurate as most of the cartridges used for 600 yard competition, as long as I ran the at the velocity those cartridges push them at. Which is a maximum rpm they will tolerate before being compromised.

For me the 25 cal. has always been all about being a superior big game caliber to the 6mm for medium big game, and just as good for varmint, but superior to a 6.5 for that application, while handling just as big of game as well as the 6.5 is suited for.

Covering that gamut of hunting situations from top to bottom better than either one of them can.

I am not sure it can unseat the 6mm for 600 yard competition, but if it can, it's not going to be with the largest cartridges.

I say this because spinning those 135 or bigger bullets are only going to tolleratrbso many rpms before they see the same compromises on bullet integrity the 6mm's did. Personally I believe anything over 3100 fps is going to bring less than the most efficient capacity to have a chance to unseat the 6mm.
Physics, gravity, and Father Time are undefeated. Took me forever to get my arms around the tradeoff of ultra high BC bullets. I agree 100% with your idea re heaviest 25 cal bullets.
 
Adam, stick to using manuals. Good luck

Right, you won't say because its not within what to safely expect from that cartridge. You know, at the beginning of this exchange I thought I ought not take you too seriously. Thank you for confirming that hunch.
 
That sir is why they call it Wildcatting!

The 257 Weatherby never found a great following because it is an extremely overcome cartridge in my opinion!

The Weatherby cannot reach 60,000 psi plus with full cases of magnum powders. It can reach max pressure with less than full cases of some medium burn rate powders.

In fact it needs less than full cases with suitable powders to reach 62,000. Hogdons data displays this. Anything slower than 4831 can't reach 60,000 psi or higher with full cases and the 85 grain bullet I use in my 10 twist for optimum terminal performance down range!

What your missing is the 85 or 100 grain bullets I used in my 1-10 twist, could do the same thing at 62,000 psi. The only differance was I only needed about 15 grains less of the same powder to do the same job.

I'm sorry, but if you use the same powder, at the same pressure, to push the same wieght bullet, in the same length and bore barrel, you are going to get nearly the same velocity! But you now have enough pressure in both to get optimum velocity and accuracy!

SLOWER BURNING POWDER DOES NOT BURN CONSISTENT AT LESS THAN HIGHER PRESSURES! 60,000 plus!

Once you have more case than you can completely fill, you are overcome, and any smaller case that can use the same powder to reach the same pressure with the same bullets will out perform the overcome case!!

No I was not over 65,000 psi, I unsure you R-P brass would not hold up to those pressures for 4 or 5 loadings, let alone not encounter stiffer bolt lift. Primer pockets would be weak after one or 2 firings. But now that I have 8x57 Lapua brass to work with, I have other signs of to much pressure I will have to watch for.

Again, variables are many, and understanding as many as possible is requiered to understand total performance, as well as safe and successful WILDCATTING, or just plain efficient safe and best performance when reloading!
Curious as to what velocities that you are achieving with your 257 Roberts AI and 85/100 grain bullets?
 
Curious as to what velocities that you are achieving with your 257 Roberts AI and 85/100 grain bullets?
Gary I can't find exact numbers on the 100 grain, i believe right around 3,500 was as hard as i pushed them. I want say around 3,490, that was maybe 20 years ago. But the 85 Ballistic Tips are what I favored for long range Varmint. Mainly because their extreme terminal performance out to as far as a little over 750 yards. But leaving my 27.5" Pence barrel at just over 3650 fps they were devastating on ground hogs. That was with reloaded 19 back then.

I have turned to the 6mm AI since. Never using faster twist than a 1-10, because of the sacrifice in accuracy trying to spin bullets 3,200 fps or faster has proven in my experiance to degrade accuracy, and give less than optimum performance beyond 3,500 fps where I find the 80 grain to perform best in that caliber on varmints out yonder..

Another chambering that again will easily keep up with or exceed the performance of another Weatherby round in the same caliber which suffers badly from overbore performance. The 240 is even less followed and a bigger flop than their 257. Again these cartridges are among the least efficient because of their overbore capacities that fail to perform as well as other cartridges that can exceed thier performance and deliver top accuracy with much longer barrel life.
 
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I guess you are right, they couldn’t be called efficient when it comes to powder consumption.
My 240 Wby is getting 3720 with the 80 grain TTSX and my 257 Wby was shooting the 87 grain Sierras @ 3870 (back when I was shooting it at ground hogs and foxes). Both using 26” barrels.
 
I've shot the 25-06 since the 1970s. I bought it while needing a rifle with minimal recoil because of having shoulder surgery. Never got rid of it. Many deer have fallen to it. Now I'm playing with a 257WBY and starting to fall in love again. LOL. This past week I shot a 3-shot group measuring .227 at a chornographed 3730 PFS.
nmkid
What load are you using in you Weatherby ? Can you tell me a little about your rifle. I thinking about building me a .257 Wthby

Thank you
Hal
 
I guess you are right, they couldn’t be called efficient when it comes to powder consumption.
My 240 Wby is getting 3720 with the 80 grain TTSX and my 257 Wby was shooting the 87 grain Sierras @ 3870 (back when I was shooting it at ground hogs and foxes). Both using 26” barrels.
What pressures are you loading to, just chech'n fer Adam in WI,,,, ;)

The joy of knowing how to reload!
 
What pressures are you loading to, just chech'n fer Adam in WI,,,, ;)

The joy of knowing how to reload!

Meh. I let it go when you actually posted velocities. You're initial claim that you were matching the Weatherby seemed pretty outlandish, but since you're not I really didn't feel the need to pursue it any further. Your speeds are really nothing that can't be attributed to having a barrel more than 5 inches longer than what's usually on a Roberts chambered rifle. You're still a good 200 fps behind an equal length Weatherby based on published data. I merely pointed out you were not going to match the Weatherby without excessive pressure, and in an apples to apples comparison, I was right.
 
nmkid
What load are you using in you Weatherby ? Can you tell me a little about your rifle. I thinking about building me a .257 Wthby

Thank you
Hal
Sure.
The Hawk Hill barrel is finished at 26"
Trigger is a Trigger Tech
REM 700
Harrells muzzle brake
95 gr. Hammer Hunter Tipped bullets pushed by 69.0 grs. of IMR 4350. CCI LRP.
That Hawk Hill barrel is so sweet. It cleans up like a newborn baby and hardly collects any copper.
 
Since I've gotten the update on Quick Load, I've been playing with Vihtavouri N555 for several cartridges.
The 250 Savage & 25 WSSM just don't have the case capacity for it.
Using RL17 in both of those.

Hodgdon Hybrid 100V gets the nod for my 257 Roberts loaded to "+P".

My 257 Roberts AI and 25-06 both do well with the N555.

The Mark V Ultra Lightweight in 257 WBY seems to enjoy both IMR 7828 and Ramshot LRT.

Realistic velocity expectations for the AI are much closer to the 25 WSSM, and 26-06. Even though those 2 have shorter barrels. AI-24, WSSM-23, 25-06-22.

And none of them comes close to the Weatherby.

Bear in mind, they are all hunting rifles with 1:10 twist shooting 115gr bullets on accuracy nodes, not max velocity.
 
Sure.
The Hawk Hill barrel is finished at 26"
Trigger is a Trigger Tech
REM 700
Harrells muzzle brake
95 gr. Hammer Hunter Tipped bullets pushed by 69.0 grs. of IMR 4350. CCI LRP.
That Hawk Hill barrel is so sweet. It cleans up like a newborn baby and hardly collects any copper.
What twist ? How do you like the Harrell's muzzle brake ?

Hal
 
I'm thinking of trying the 100 grain BT for deer this year. A shade over 3400 fps, will they be entertaining or disappointing?
I used the 100gr Ballistic Tip the year before in my 250 Savage. Obviously not 3,400fps...
It worked.
Took 2 deer, but was kinda underwhelming.

Out of the 257 Roberts at 3,100fps was more effective.
Especially on coyotes!
I grabbed the wrong ammo.
Meant to grab the green tipped 90gr Sierra BlitzKings. Look the same in the dark. :rolleyes:
NOT fur friendly!!

Either way the 100gr will punch through on a broad side shot.
 

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