Long range load development at 100 yards.

[Papa Charlie]

You guys still following this thread? Hard to imagine you guys haven't figured out that it was an April fools joke. Look at the date it was originally posted!

Yes May 5, 2013. You sure you have the right thread?

 

[Brians356]

April Fools/ Cinco de Mayo
Hard to tell the difference when we’re drinking

Cinco de Mayo, that's Mexican Independence Day isn't it?
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[Brians356]

You guys still following this thread? Hard to imagine you guys haven't figured out that it was an April fools joke. Look at the date it was originally posted!

Now tell us how you really develop long-range loads at short range.
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[Erik Cortina]

Just kidding, I just wanted to make sure you guys are still awake here. I haven't been here in a while.

 

[INTJ]

Back in 2005-2007 I had only a 100 yd range to develop a 1000 yd BR load. I was able to shoot five groups between 3.5" and 4" one year--those were screamer groups back then, so I didn't even know you couldn't develop long range loads at short range until I came back to competition in 2018.

And no, I don't neck size and I didn't back then.........

 

[KY_Windage]

Ha! April Fools, I knew it! So I went shooting today, instead. No more testing, just dancing with who brung us. Rather breezey. Finally got a good group and then the wind blew my target frame over. Time to call it a day. Got a bunch of new brass to neck-size. All 5-shot groups, of course.

 

[whatwind?]

How much time should you give for these test between strings or shots?

Above, you shoot your 5 shots stings at normal pace? One every 20 ish seconds and then wait how long to start next string?

 

[KY_Windage]

I have no breaks in between strings. My shots lately (winter) have been paced about a minute apart, sometimes more if I have to wait for a lull in the breeze. As it warms up I will take longer in between shots in order to let my barrel and suppressor cool down. If I am seeing significant mirage off my (coverless) suppressor, I know I need to allow more cooling time. If in doubt I reach up and feel the barrel right in front of the scope. This has nothing to do with accuracy, but with barrel preservation. I may have to shoot fast in a match, but I'm not going to do that when I'm not on a clock.

 

[Rooster68]

Hello,this will be my 1st post on this GREAT site,Gun is a 6br,remington action,28 krieger barrel,mcmillian stock,action trued, etc,chronograph was just a caldwell in a box using light bar,so not 100% sure on accuracy readings for fps?what charge weight would you go with?I am new to shooting free recoil so I'm trying my best..lol..reason I say this is because the 1st shot of each group was always high left?idk why?thank you for opinions and feedback

 

[savageshooter86]

Hello,this will be my 1st post on this GREAT site,Gun is a 6br,remington action,28 krieger barrel,mcmillian stock,action trued, etc,chronograph was just a caldwell in a box using light bar,so not 100% sure on accuracy readings for fps?what charge weight would you go with?I am new to shooting free recoil so I'm trying my best..lol..reason I say this is because the 1st shot of each group was always high left?idk why?thank you for opinions and feedback

Try 30.3 and now test seating. Start at touch and then seat deeper in case(“jump”) by 0.003” at a time. Keep seating until you see groups shrink for one/two consecutive seating depths. Post results. Only need 3-4 shot groups for this to get a ball park

 

[Rooster68]

Try 30.3 and now test seating. Start at touch and then seat deeper in case(“jump”) by 0.003” at a time. Keep seating until you see groups shrink for one/two consecutive seating depths. Post results. Only need 3-4 shot groups for this to get a ball park

So kinda ignore my chrono readings?sd,es,? And go with 30.3,ok.when should I stop going back? -.030? And yes I plan to shoot friday and will post results weather permitting Thanks

 

[savageshooter86]

So kinda ignore my chrono readings?sd,es,? And go with 30.3,ok.when should I stop going back? -.030? And yes I plan to shoot friday and will post results weather permitting Thanks

You stop when groups tighten up to be what you want. You should see bad groups to ok groups to excellent. Should see two/3 groups back to back that shoot well

 

[Red Dawg 34]

I shoot a 6BR Krieger barrel, 29.5 inches, on a Defiance action. I shoot Berger 105 Hybrid Target bullets. I did the same thing you did and shot Varget loads from 27.5 to 31.0 from 1,000ths off to 20,000ths off. Shot through the chrono but really didn’t see the results I wanted. Ended up taking advice from this forum and loading 30.0 grains, 1,000th of lands and shoots great at 600 and 1,000 yards.

I didn’t notice that you were shooting VLD’s until I looked at the target pic again. Berger VLD’s are extremely seating depth sensitive so that could be one issue you may be having. I was having issues shooting .223 80 grain VLD’s out of my .223 barrel and contacted Berger about the issues. They sent me some information on their VLD bullets and also something on testing the seating depth. Way too much info to retype here but if you PM me with your email address, I will forward the info they sent me. All said, you might want to try the 105 or 109 Berger Hybrid Targets first!

 

[Rooster68]

Thanks Red Dawg,this is a new gun and I am just starting load development with it,and my target I posted was just to ask opinions on powder charge weight,I plan on shooting seating depth test 2mmrw,so I kinda don't think I have any problems yet with this bullet,I just picked -.020 off the lands to do powder testing,thanks

 

[Red Dawg 34]

Rooster68, no problem. Just thought I would share some info with you. Just don’t give up on the VLD bullet if it doesn’t group well in a 100 yard test. Takes a while for it to stabilize. I gave up on the .223 80 grain VLD because it did not group at 100 yards. I happen to have that load with me at our 600 yard range so I tried it. After about 5 rounds to find my 600 yard dope, I shot a 10 round group at our Shot Marker target and shot my only 9X group at that distance. Just try the VLD bullet at some longer distances to see how they shoot.

 

[Rooster68]

Yup,I understand that fully,in my 223 wylde chambered AR 15,70 grain bergers,I believe they jump .095 and it shoots amazing at 600,thanks again

 

[Rooster68]

Well,drove out to cabin this am to do some testing?and idk?was hoping for better groups? -.021 and -.024 look ok?but my es is way to wide?and my "sighter group" was just a random measurement at -.038..and 3 shots outta cold clean bore shot the best?wind is not a factor,but between me and the scattered sprinkles of rain..idk?opinions welcome, Thanks

 

[Red Dawg 34]

Well,drove out to cabin this am to do some testing?and idk?was hoping for better groups? -.021 and -.024 look ok?but my es is way to wide?and my "sighter group" was just a random measurement at -.038..and 3 shots outta cold clean bore shot the best?wind is not a factor,but between me and the scattered sprinkles of rain..idk?opinions welcome, Thanks

Rooster68,

Take a look at the attached from Berger. VLD’s have a sweet spot of a band that is .030 to .040 wide and is located anywhere between jamming the bullet into the lands and .150 jump off the lands. The attached shows how to test to see where that sweet spot is.

It’s amazing that your sighters were the best group but you may have stumbled on the sweet spot with that particular seating depth. Quick question, why did you choose the seating depth of .038 for your sighters?

 

[Rooster68]

Red Dawg,thanks for the pdf,I have read that sometime back,I loaded all my rounds last night and quit when I was at -.030..I had 3 rounds leftover,sometimes I fill a couple xtra with powder when loading,I'm using a wilson microseater die,when I was done with the -.030 I turned in the die to shoot for a -.040 just for the heck of it and after measuremen's it was -.038...I figured they are then gonna be the sighter fouling load..after I shot all my test loads,it started raining again,so I went in cabin and cleaned gun and loaded some -.038 and -.021 and -.024, then between the rain I shot those groups, the -.038 shot ok?not like first group,the -.021 was 1 ragged hole, the .-024 was ok also,and then it started pouring rain...so I was done, that target I left in woods..lol .basically I need to practice my free recoil shooting more...then I'm gonna test more rounds again and yes when I shot that sighter group I thought wow?maybe I got lucky?well not after trying to duplicate it...my rounds are consistent in assembly,my shooting is not..thanks Red Dawg

 

[E4TL34D]

I'm new to all this. It makes zero sense that you would want a string of shots that "line up vertically," since that means that they are likely traveling at different velocities (that makes sense to me). Having a load that repeatedly gives good groups would be a more reliable measure. As for seating depth, since I'm shooting an ar I'm just getting it as close to max COAL as possible. This has worked for heavier bullets, but now that Im loading lighter bullets (and the tested load data that I'm following use shorter COAL) and I'm trying to get my velocity standard deviation down and nothing really seems to work reliably. Any suggestions?

It is easy to make a snap judgement, but at the same time, the first string of targets do tell you something worth listening to.

A full repeat of the series is worth doing. I am NOT a believer in the ladder/OCW theories - they have too many statistical holes in their theories, and I have shot too many groups to believe in that voo-doo.

Shoot groups a few times, it is easy for a load to produce a great group once in a while, but not be a great load.

When working up loads, I usually shoot the ones that look good TWICE the next time, because it is unlikely that you can have three good flukes in a row.