Long range load development at 100 yards.

[mj52]

jlow,

You're offering assistance, not ridicule, no problem.

I did go back and look at the cases under better lighting conditions and found at 26.5 all 3 of the primers were flat and even the marks left by the 3 legs of the anvil were not there (those 3 little strips of clean brass spaced around the outer edge of the primer pocket bottom were missing).

Thankfully there have been no near misses with primers at all. I just knew that 26.5 pretty much filled the case and I was seating a bullet into this. Thats why I didn't go to 27.0 even though Sierra's book says 27.1 is MAX for Varget.

I already have all I need to measure OAL in a kit, along with a Sierra 55, 60 and 77 gr bullet and after the work party this Sunday hopefully I'll get a lesson. I just don't get consistent results, surely operator error.

Thank You for your constructive criticism, mj52

 

[jlow]

Hey mj52,

Not a problem – glad to be of help. We’ve all gone through similar things in this journey of reloading….

Not quite sure what you mean by “marks left by the 3 legs of the anvil”, but flat primers by itself is completely conclusive of high pressure since there are primers like CCI400 that have thin cups, and other conditions associated with reloading that can also cause this. Flat primers also are not absolute and have different degrees. This is why we start low and look for changes and when enough of them progress to what we don’t like to see, we stop.

Yes, a full case is usually a good sign that you are getting close to the edge. The book values are really only a rough guide. There have been a number of times when I have gone over but other times not been able to get close. Some “book values” are overly conservative and other times because of the components you are using (like cases that have smaller volumes), you will not be able to go as high in terms of a max charge. Ambient temperature is another factor that can throw a monkey wrench into these numbers as pressure signs will show up earlier when it is hot outside. This is why the pressure signs are so important.

Good luck with your reloading. 8)

 

[6BRinNZ]

Finally got my .308 finished.

32" barrel
Pana F-class
Lapua cases
Fed 210 primer
Varget (ADI 2208)
Cortina Tuner (on 0)

Going from shooting a 6br and 105s to a .308 and 185s wowser...that is a kick in the pants...anyways second time out I am getting used to the recoil.

I ran a ladder test using 185 scenars (to get on paper and see what pressures show up) as these have a very similar bearing surface to the berger 185 Hybrids which are a rare commodity and to be preserved!

Using the scenars I went from 42.0 to 46 grains of varget in .5 grain increments. Primers were starting to flatten further but case expansion and bolt lift etc seemed fine. Before my chrony gave up I had one reading with the 185 scenars at 43.5 2660 fps.

So on to my testing using the Berger 185 hybrids. I went from 43.9 - 45.4 in .3 increments.

top picture is (from the left) 44.8, 45.1, 45.4
bottom picture is (from the left) 43.9, 44.2, 44.5

I don't have a good handle on what is a sensible load for NZ conditions with a .308, certainly what I run in my 6br is much much higher than what would be way over pressure on this site. Its tempting to pick one of the loads, just go shoot it and re-tune once all of the brass has been fired and the barrel has a few more rounds down it.

Anyways what do you all think...where to next?

 

[Steve Blair]

Well, that shows some promise.

 

[Erik Cortina]

6BRinNZ, this is why I tell shooters to start off with a Panda and good components!

Well, this is where chronograph readings would come in really handy. All groups look great, so picking the one with lowest ES would be the best idea.

I would start with 44.1 so that you can get your brass fire formed with a lower charge. I find this extends primer pocket life by work hardening the case head a little before you go full throttle. The lower charge will also have less recoil, so it will allow you to get used to shooting your gun and develop a good technique. After all that is sorted out, you can shoot heavy loads IF your gun tunes at a higher charge. Always seek accuracy as they don't give high speed trophies.

I would not worry about working on seating depth at this point, just load a few more like what you shot and adjust tuner to give you the best groups and go shoot. After all brass is fire formed, come back and do a full test, and most importantly, KEEP US UPDATED!!!

 

[6BRinNZ]

Thanks Erik,

Yeah the chrony approach went a little pear shaped and the air went blue! Hopefully I will have this sorted next week...not sure, may not matter so much for the time being.

Good point on the lower charge and case heads.

Being from NZ I am a Barnard man, but I sure do like this Panda.

A shout out to Hobie at Kelblys - he has been fantastic.

 

[mj52]

Hello,

This is my work from 100 using 26.2gr of varget and adjusting distance by 0.003" using the Ogive of 1.898.

If it matters I reused the same 15 pieces of brass from the powder charge step, hope that makes sense.

Thanks, mj52

 

[Erik Cortina]

1.898" looks good. If you keep going you will hit the node again.

Is this an AR?

 

[mj52]

Sir,

It is an AR. Stag Arms 6L 24" bull barrel w/1:8 twist, Nikon 6-18 buckmaster, 1/8" per click on a 20MOA base. I did powder charge step yesterday and seating depth today both using same 15 pieces of brass.

You mentioned "If you keep going you will hit the node again.". going in which direction? I'm assuming keep moving away from lands at 0.003" per step.

mj52

 

[Erik Cortina]

Sir,

It is an AR. Stag Arms 6L 24" bull barrel w/1:8 twist, Nikon 6-18 buckmaster, 1/8" per click on a 20MOA base. I did powder charge step yesterday and seating depth today both using same 15 pieces of brass.

You mentioned "If you keep going you will hit the node again.". going in which direction? I'm assuming keep moving away from lands at 0.003" per step.

mj52

Yes, keep moving away from the lands in .003" increments.

 

[edwin_velocity]

I would start with 44.1 so that you can get your brass fire formed with a lower charge. I find this extends primer pocket life by work hardening the case head a little before you go full throttle. The lower charge will also have less recoil, so it will allow you to get used to shooting your gun and develop a good technique. After all that is sorted out, you can shoot heavy loads IF your gun tunes at a higher charge. Always seek accuracy as they don't give high speed trophies.

Hi Erik, I'm curious to know why you choose 44.1 instead of 45.1 & 45.4? As they have pretty tight vertical dispersion.

Thank you

edwin

 

[Erik Cortina]

I would start with 44.1 so that you can get your brass fire formed with a lower charge. I find this extends primer pocket life by work hardening the case head a little before you go full throttle. The lower charge will also have less recoil, so it will allow you to get used to shooting your gun and develop a good technique. After all that is sorted out, you can shoot heavy loads IF your gun tunes at a higher charge. Always seek accuracy as they don't give high speed trophies.

Hi Erik, I'm curious to know why you choose 44.1 instead of 45.1 & 45.4? As they have pretty tight vertical dispersion.

Thank you

edwin

They both have a good vertical spread, but since he said he was going to fire form brass first and then work up load again, it's better to use light load to fire form.

 

[rmist]

Hello again,
Well after the powder charge test and ended up with 30.4 gr of varget. Next was the seating depth test. Below is what turned out. What do you think?? Top left is a hard jam of .019", oal 2.457. Looks alright but don't like that much of a jam due to removing cartridge in case of cease fire and remove with all that powder in the chamber !! The .004 jump, 2.433 oal with my comparator. That one looks ok as well. Thoughts. This is a 6mmBr with a .2704 neck, using a .266 bushing with loaded round of .268. Would a .265 bushing be better?? Wanted to add, this was at 2800 fps with es of 11.
Thanx again, Rmist

 

[Erik Cortina]

Your window is from 2.444-2.447". If you were not planning to shoot there, why did Moy test there? Test only in areas you would be ok shooting in.

Keep testing in .003" increments away from the lands until accuracy comes in again. Don't change neck tension yet.

 

[rmist]

Thank you again Eric !! I'll load some going away from the lands next time out. For going in that deep - wanted to see what it would do. But your right, shouldn't have gone there. Still learning rifle.
Thanx again,
Rmist

 

[Erik Cortina]

Thank you again Eric !! I'll load some going away from the lands next time out. For going in that deep - wanted to see what it would do. But your right, shouldn't have gone there. Still learning rifle.
Thanx again,
Rmist

Good luck!

 

[Erik Cortina]

Guys, I've been getting a lot of emails requesting help on this topic. As you guys have noticed, I don't mind helping anyone out, but I think anyone following this thread would benefit more if questions were posted directly on this thread.

If you have any specific questions, feel free to email me.

 

[savageshooter86]

51 pages and counting

 

[edwin_velocity]

Hi Erik,

Have a new Bartlein 5R 12 twist installed on Remington 700 short action.

And here's the component I use :
- Scenar 167
- N150, from 42,5 up to 46,0 no flat primer at 46,0...but the bolt slightly hard to lift.
- CCI 200 standard

I think 2 bullets went into same hole on 43,5.
And I made mistake by taking 1 of the 44,5 load when shooting 44,0.
So then I shot 1 of the 44,0 load into 44,5 target.

Do you think 43,5 - 44,5 is the node? Because the chrono data doesn't support it.
Or maybe the quality of my chrono, I'm using Chrony Beta

Your thought will be much appreciate it.

Thanks Erik


edwin

 

[stubbicatt]

E. C. I have no opinion on what you offer here, but I am grateful that a competitor of your "caliber" has shared with the rest of us something which you have found valuable, and therefore worthy of serious consideration.