Light strikes or bad batch of primers??

[sdeal5]

Had similar problem at a match this weekend with br2's. Ended up having to withdraw because I was having about 30 percent misfires with 2 different rifles. Have used br2's with these rifles for a long time with no probs at all. This was the 1st 100 out of a new carton of 1000???? Was also getting extreme vertical in both rifles when they did fire and both of these loads have been very accurate for a long time with very little vertical at all. Don't know what is going on for sure, but it will make you gnash your teeth.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

test the spring,,it shuld hav 20-25 lbs of resistance,,,,,Roger

I'm with Roger here. Check the spring and clean the bolt. Light spring pressure can cause misfires and the cratering that you are experiencing. If the spring isn't weak, you definitely have a need for bushing the firing pin hole, but that wouldn't explain the misfires. Weak FP spring is the only thing I can think of that will do both. If it's not that, you likely have multiple problems going on at once.--Mike Ezell

 

[nosualc]

You didn't buy the used primers did you? Never had any luck with them myself.

Seriously, any chance the 8 FTFs didn't have powder in them? We've all (ok, I have) missed charging a round. Hard to miss 8 of 60, but it's possible (you said FTF, I'm not sure if you mean 'click with nothing' or 'click with a pop and no bang').

Did you try and fire the 8 a second time? That would tell you something.

Just trying to think of stuff different than bad primers, or the other things already suggested.

-nosualc

 

[amlevin]

I had a similar problem recently but it occured with a couple different primer brands.

When I took the bolt apart to clean it, I took a careful look inside and noticed that brass shavings from the case heads had made their way up the firing pin channel and were getting hammered into what ended up looking like a spark plug gasket on the "step" that stops the firing pin from protruding too far.

It took a lot of digging and scraping to remove this but once gone, no more misfires.

On a separate note re: BR-2's, has anyone ever had a "No Powder" incident where the BR-2 primer didn't even have enough "Oomph" to move the bullet from it's seated position??? Had one earlier last week that behaved just like a bad primer but when I pulled the bullet all I got out of the case was some soot. Boat Tail of the bullet was black with soot as well but the bullet didn't move at all, even with .002" tension. This hasn't happened to me before with a rifle but a couple times in a pistol and then it was a case of getting out the brass rod and hammer.

 

[gotcha]

No need to apologize for the photography. If you have cratering you can feel the "cone" of the crater by running your finger over the primer. If you have a set of precision drills (usually in graduations of .002") you can probe the F/P hole & compare to F/P diameter near the tip to determine any slop. It's amazing how much crud can work its way down the F/P shaft & end up binding internal bolt parts. Lots of stuff could be effecting F/P function. I'm hoping a thorough cleaning & re-lube will solve your problem..... Had a problem similar to yours that was intermittent. A thorough cleaning solved it. The Remy "gear heads" here should be able to tell you how much clearance is "spec" on your F/P. Good luck & keep us posted. Inquiring minds want to know. 8)

 

[mikecr]

You might notice that it's not the indenting itself that sets off primers. It's the effective speed of that impact.

 

[NorCalMikie]

Like was just mentioned, was the brass being pushed forward in the chamber because the shoulders were pushed back too far?? Seat the bullets into the lands and see if those FTF rounds will go off.
And pull the bolt apart and clean it real good. If the other rounds fired, probably not needing a firing pin bushing.

 

[wapiti25]

I would pull a bullet and have a look inside the case first, then decap and look at the primer. The next thing is to dump the remaining primers from that box of 100 and look at the pellet in each primer with a magnifier. I would do that with other 100 boxes out of that 1000, look for any anvils missing. Cleaning the inside of the bolt is a good thing, use a good led light and see if there is anything strange in there. Checking headspace on rifle and brass would be worth doing. These are things that will give you confidence that all is well with things you can check and don't cost money. When you pull the bullet look for SS media in the powder or firing pin hole, corn cob/walnut shells do plug the flash holes and cause problems. Were the cases good and dry before loading? The last thing is to notify CCI and have the lot # from the primers. Good luck on finding what caused the FTF.

 

[Webster]

I recently had a similar problem with Fed 205 primers. Switched to Rem 9 1/2 BR primers without a problem since. I have used a Lee hand priming tool for 20,000 rounds without a problem until this problem. I don't know if the Fed primers were bad but I never had this problem before. Now I make sure that I seat the primers by feel. I don't force the primer tool handle against the tool body. You can feel when it will take additional force to move the primer tool handle, stop at this point. The primer is fully seated at this point pushing more probably pushes the primer charge against the internal anvil. The primer charge cake is between the primer cup and anvil. Additional force may crack or penetrate the charge cake. All bench rest shooters seat by feel. I found that if you stop when you feel an increase in force on the Lee tool handle/lever the primer is always seated below the case head. I think the case primer pocket is swaged into the head it doesn't look like it's machined.

 

[Webster]

I forgot to mention my rifle is a Rem 700. My DNF primers always had a good firing pin indent. Since I switched to REM 9 1/2 /BR primers and don't force the primer seating tool I have fired about 200 rounds without a misfire. Don't spent the money to bush the firing pin until you try careful seating and taking the bolt apart and clean it with carburetor cleaner. I use CRC Brakeleen green can from Autozone. The green can uses toluene as a solvent. The red can is water base cleaner. Don't buy standard primers, buy BR primers they have better quality control during manufacturing and they don't cost that much more.

 

[GSPV]

Don't know if it is helpful or not, but you might measure both your total pin fall and how much your pin is indenting the primer.

Measure total pin fall by measuring, with calipers, how much your pin is protruding from the shroud when cocked, then how far into the shroud it is when you decock it on an empty chamber. The sum of the two is total pin fall.

Measure indent by:
1. Depriming a case without resizing it,
2. Put in the primer being tested as you normally do.
3. Put the case in the chamber and super gently decock the pin onto its surface
4. Measuring how far into the shroud the pin is.
5. Cock the bolt and fire the primer.
6. Again measure how far the primer is into the shroud.
7. The difference of the two is primer indentation.

Obviously, you have to have the muzzle pointed in a safe direction and have hearing protection on through the test.

It would be good to have those measurements when you talk to the experts.

FWIW, Greg J.

 

[thefitter]

Thanks for all the effort and well thought out replies...however I think the primary issue is that I'm a numb nuts. :

Take a look at the 8 primers and see if you can catch what is wrong. You might have to go back and re-read my OP.

 

[BoydAllen]

No powder

 

[lloydx2]

It happens. I dont know you but I admire your character and honesty

 

[thefitter]

No... I'm not that much of a numb nuts, there was powder.

Those are not CCI BR2 primers, (no B stamped on them). They are CCI 34 military primers that I some how mixed in with the BR2s. I'm not sure how many I had mixed in that day because I already cleaned all the brass and I'm not sure if the incredibly dirty bolt guts contributed to it or not because they still should have fired.

So maybe the combination of dirty bolt, 4000+ rounds on the spring and harder cup on the military primers all combined in a perfect storm to prevent ignition on these 8.

Not a total loss because I learned some things from all the replies and I was reminded that I need to clean my bolt more regularly.

Thanks

 

[amlevin]

I use CRC Brakeleen green can from Autozone. The green can uses toluene as a solvent. The red can is water base cleaner.

Sorry but this statement doesn't pass the "Fact Check".

Brakleen comes in two formulas. One uses chlorinated hydrocarbons and has been around for years. In later years they introduced a "Green" formula that does not use any chlorinated hydrocarbons.

Check the MSDS sheets and you'll find that they just use different solvents, not water.

In my working career I not only ordered but sold several truck loads each year of this, and similar, products. The "Red Cans" are more than 90% Trichloroethylene which is an excellent degreaser, The "Green" uses Methanol, Toluene, Heptane, and Acetone with Methanol being almost half the mix.

Carbon Dioxide is used for propellant in both types.

Yes, there are some cleaning methods for Brake Service that use water but they use large "Bird Bath" type cleaner systems, not aerosols. Great to remove the brake dust but suck when trying to remove oil and grease.

 

[Webster]

Thanks for the info. I use toluene at work and it smells like toluene which it contains. I assumed the Red can had water in it since it evaporated very slow. The Red can with Trichlorethlene (if I spelled it correctly) may be more hazardous to health?

 

[amlevin]

Thanks for the info. I use toluene at work and it smells like toluene which it contains. I assumed the Red can had water in it since it evaporated very slow. The Red can with Trichlorethlene (if I spelled it correctly) may be more hazardous to health?

Neither is healthy to breath.

I buy the generic version of "Red Can" from my local auto parts house by the case. Only use it to clean pistols when I get back from the range. No excess oil or grease buildup in all the nooks and crannies.

Don't use it anywhere near my brass while processing.

 

[Webster]

I did a Google search for primer sensitivity. Apparently many military primers are made less sensitive to prevent slam fires in semi-auto and full auto guns.

 

[ebb]

I had hangfires in a 7rum that a gunsmith built for me. It had a Dave Kiff bolt in it also, however Dave and his bolt were blamless in this problem. When a Kiff bolt is put in a Remington action and you read his instructions it says that gunsmithing is required. The firing pin protusion needs to be set and it aint a Savage that can be adjusted with a set screw as some one posted earlier. Material needs to be cut off the interior of the pin or the pin shortened to make the lenght right. If the pin hasnt been set right it needs to be. Military primers or not. And the second poster was right, send it to Greg Tannel, he will bush the firing pin and set the protrusion and chech out all other problems that can occur with a bolt and will return it in less than 5 days. You will never be sorry you had him work on your bolt! the bushing process will make hotter loads easier to handle as the primers wont flow or crater.