Problem with light strikes

[dkhunt14]

As with all equipment, as tooling wears, product dimensions change.

But there are plus or minus tolerances and the standard dimension is different. Matt

 

[JRS]

But there are plus or minus tolerances and the standard dimension is different. Matt

Exactly. Thats the reason I don't weigh cartridge cases, nor measure primers.

 

[dkhunt14]

Exactly. Thats the reason I don't weigh cartridge cases, nor measure primers.

Not being a march shooter you wouldn't have have too. The same lot should be very close. It has been proven that weighing primers can be beneficial to long range target shooters. A primer can vary by as much as a grain and it is the priming mixture that makes the difference. Matt

 

[JRS]

Not being a march shooter you wouldn't have have too. The same lot should be very close. It has been proven that weighing primers can be beneficial to long range target shooters. A primer can vary by as much as a grain and it is the priming mixture that makes the difference. Matt

Not necessarily, Matt. The difference in weight could be the thickness of the cup itself. Look at it this way; If primer "A" has the same OD as primer "B", but is thicker, it will have a smaller ID, along with a reduction in the amount of priming compound that it will hold. Of course, the thicker primer will withstand a greater amount of pressure. A variation in thickness will result in a difference in weight. That's why I find weighing and measuring primers to be a complete waste of time. Prior to weighing, you would have to measure the OD and height of each primer, to be sure each one is exactly the same in all dimensions. Same, same, for cartridge cases. Remember the +/- dimensions.

 

[Richard Coody]

wow. you guys would argue with a fence post.

i say to each his.own. whatever works for you

that is why they make so many different ones. obviously they all sell.

 

[JRS]

wow. you guys would argue with a fence post.

i say to each his.own. whatever works for you

that is why they make so many different ones. obviously they all sell.

I don't see an argument, but do see opinions about a discussion. Call it a "crucial conversation"

 

[fguffey]

This sounded like a really good idea so I did as you said. I closed the bolt on one of the offending cases with a primer partially seated. Of course it took some force to get the bolt to close. The primer appeared flush when I removed the case, but the calipers told a different story. The primer surface was sitting .008 inches below the base

Below the base of what? There should be no way to seat a primer below the case head but no one has said anything, I can only guess reloaders are now accepting that as procedural. And then there is the spring, after 4 pages I would think there would be a reloader that would offer some insight, that leaves me with thinking most do not have a clue.

F. Guffey

 

[fguffey]

Now put two pieces of tape on a case trim to the case head and see the bolt closes if it does you have a head space problem .
Larry

Or he could check to see if his press and dies have threads. I off set the length of the chamber with the length of the case from the shoulder to the case head, life is much simpler for me when reloading because my cases do not have head space.

F. Guffey

 

[JRS]

Below the base of what? There should be no way to seat a primer below the case head but no one has said anything, I can only guess reloaders are now accepting that as procedural. And then there is the spring, after 4 pages I would think there would be a reloader that would offer some insight, that leaves me with thinking most do not have a clue.

F. Guffey

Sure there is, Guffey. Isn't it possible when during the primer pocket forming process the the pocket has been formed too deep? How about the primer? Is it possible the leg on the cup is shorter than the intended dimension the machine was set up for, or the machine out of adjustment? No offense intended.

 

[dmoran]

Not necessarily, Matt. The difference in weight could be the thickness of the cup itself. Look at it this way; If primer "A" has the same OD as primer "B", but is thicker, it will have a smaller ID, along with a reduction in the amount of priming compound that it will hold. Of course, the thicker primer will withstand a greater amount of pressure. A variation in thickness will result in a difference in weight. That's why I find weighing and measuring primers to be a complete waste of time. Prior to weighing, you would have to measure the OD and height of each primer, to be sure each one is exactly the same in all dimensions. Same, same, for cartridge cases. Remember the +/- dimensions.

Assuming your input is based on actual experience, from one same Lot of primers how much extreme variations have you yourself measured:
- How much cup thickness variation?
- How much diameter variation?
- How much height variation?
If you yourself don't know the differences first hand, why bother to reply?

 

[JRS]

Assuming your input is based on actual experience, from one same Lot of primers how much extreme variations have you yourself measured:
- How much cup thickness variation?
- How much diameter variation?
- How much height variation?
- How much weight?
If you yourself don't know the differences first hand, why bother to reply?

I worked with, and learned from the experimenters, Donovan. Ed Watson, Walt Berger, Dan Dowling, Stu Harvey, Gary O'Cock, Bob Brackney, Chuck Miller, Skip Otto, Walt Segovis, and last, but not least, the late John Adams. Yes, we weighed, measured, and compiled the information. RWS primers were the most consistent. Federal and Wolf were a close second. Variations vary between manufacturers and their allowable tolerances. Tool wearing plays a big part. Profit is the major concern for manufacturers. In most businesses, quantity is the driving force. Quality, unfortunately, for many, takes a backseat. With that said, Winchester primers, though hot, are the most consistent.

Edit: A martin guitar is best for the Martin followers. A Taylor guitar is best for the Taylor followers. Both provide essentially the same sound and feeling. It comes down to the person picking those strings.

 

[dmoran]

Yes, we weighed, measured, and compiled the information.

Share or link to: this information YOU compiled.

 

[JRS]

Share or link to: this information YOU compiled.

I didn't compile the info, Donovan. That information was stored by the names I provided. Your use of the colored word, "we" depicts the teenybopper thing, trying to gain attention (don't go there). However, if you choose to be a wise guy, I can provide some actual facts about you that would prove to be quite embarrassing!

 

[dmoran]

I didn't compile the info, Donovan. That information was stored by the names I provided. Your use of the colored word, "we" depicts the teenybopper thing, trying to gain attention. However, if you choose to be a wise guy, I can provide some actual facts about you that would prove to be quite embarrassing!

Wow.... now obscuring the discussion from primers to personal threat..... you rock

 

[JRS]

Wow.... now obscuring the discussion from primers to personal threat..... you rock

No threats, Donovan. Try to understand the ramifications of being a wise guy If the facts don't fit your theory, change the facts

 

[hogpatrol]

hogpatrol,
This sounded like a really good idea so I did as you said. I closed the bolt on one of the offending cases with a primer partially seated. Of course it took some force to get the bolt to close. The primer appeared flush when I removed the case, but the calipers told a different story. The primer surface was sitting .008 inches below the base

Something doesn't sound right. The primer shouldn't have been any deeper than the case head.

 

[Joe Salt]

JRS Weigh out a 1000 primers, now take the high and low and put them in your record string of 10 shoots and let us know if there is a difference! But shoot them at 1000 yards not a 100 yards.

Joe Salt

 

[dmoran]

No threats, Donovan. Try to understand the ramifications of being a wise guy If the facts don't fit your theory, change the facts

Ramifications?... more like obscuration.

In any regards, no matter what may be the reasons for weight indifference's in primers, my own repeated experience is I get less vertical, less flier's, and smaller groups from weight sorted primers.
Matt turned me on to it years ago, that proved to be an immediate problem solver at the time. Have tested it a few times since that each time unanimously proved weight sorted to have less dispersion. Small exception; some Lot's have little weight extreme and are less subjected to dispersion extreme as well.
Donovan

 

[CharlieNC]

Ramifications?... more like obscuration.

In any regards, no matter what may be the reasons for weight indifference's in primers, my own repeated experience is I get less vertical, less flier's, and smaller groups from weight sorted primers.
Matt turned me on to it years ago, that proved to be an immediate problem solver at the time. Have tested it a few times since that each time unanimously proved weight sorted to have less dispersion. Small exception; some Lot's have little weight extreme and are less subjected to dispersion extreme as well.
Donovan

Donovan what weight range do you consider important for primers?

 

[dmoran]

@Charlie
With CCI "Small Rifle" primers, which are primarily the primers I use, I sort them to within 0.06-hundredths (grain) of each other on a MX-123 scale (which is about 1.5% of each other, by gross weight).
Donovan