CCI BR4 primers 60% failed

[DaveTooley]

Describe your definition of primers seated properly. The majority of misfires are caused by not seating primers deep enough.

 

[SWRichmond]

Misfires and BR4's and new brass...we get one of these threads about every 6-8 months it seems. A while back there was a batch of Lapua Palma 308 cases that were a few thousandths short in the shoulder, and at least two of my FTR acquaintances had trouble with them and BR4's. The case rim seems to snap into the extractor when you chamber them, but when the firing pin hits the primer the whole case moves forward. On top of that, I think BR4's are a little harder to set off.

I'd be very interested to know what happens if you reprime 20 or so of these cases with a more sensitive primer, fire them, then carefully resize them and prime with the same lot of BR4's.

 

[243winxb]

Some primer cups are harder and thicker then others, from lot to lot.

Try a new firing pin spring??

Assuming the firing pin protrusion is correct?

 

[47WillysGuy]

Sounds like they aren't seated deep enough to set the anvil. If the anvil doesnt get set then you get a big dent but no bang.
These types of threads typically revolve around primers with a harder cup.

Yep, that is what believed happened with my Peterson vs Lapua brass.

 

[jlow]

If the OP knows how to check for proper primer seating (that is something that only he knows), it is not a proud primer since he said he checked. Not too much headspace as his fired brass only grew 4 thousands.

About the only thing I can think of is a temperature effect on a lube that he might have put in his bolt. He never told us if this was a gas or bolt gun. In a gas gun, operation with lube on the firing pin at cold temps i.e. 10-20 degrees can cause the lube to turn into jello which acts as a cushion and this in turn can completely shut down the firing controls. Have seen it many times first hand.

 

[CaptainMal]

Another thing to try if it might be headspace is to load like you are fire forming. Jam bullet into the lands about .030". with decent neck tension that should hold things back for a good strike. If you are loading on the top edge of a load you may want to drop off a grain or so for the jam test.

 

[hogpatrol]

May have missed it but for my 2¢, Gunked up firing pin and spring.

 

[Scott Harris]

Just summarizing what experienced shooters have already said here:
1. 99.999% chance your primers are fine...look elsewhere for the problem.
2. CCI-BR4s have hard thick cups. If you have a rifle with "borderline" ignition energy, the BR4s will show you that by failing to fire (FTF). Switching to primers that have thinner cups will mitigate the problem, but you really should fix the underlying cause because that will improve ignition consistency no matter what primer you use...which will also improve accuracy.
3. Brand new brass can have super tighter primer pockets, making it difficult to determine if you actually seated the primers flush to the bottom of the cup. If you fail to do this....FTF.
4. Remington actions use large firing pins. These types of pins do not ignite small primers as reliably as large primers. Many folks bush their firing pin to reduce primer flow/cratering and to improve ignition consistency...smaller firing pin tip more reliably creates ignition.
5. Check your firing pin spring: needs to be 24 lbs. Less than 21 lbs and you will start getting FTF.
6. Check to make sure the firing pin & cocking piece are not dragging anywhere in the assembly. There are several places to check in this area.
7. Check firing pin fall. Ideally, it should be .250". Less than .220" or so and you may get FTF...

If this sounds like gibberish to you, find a good "accuracy" smith to troubleshoot the problem. My money is on failing to seat primers firmly combined with "border-line" ignition energy.

PS. trying to fire primers that you have already struck is a hit or miss proposition. Reprime your brass and try again.

 

[ronemus]

As far as seating I use a press primer seater and can’t push on them any more than I already have.

If you're pushing that hard, you're damaging primers. I prime off the press so I can feel primers seat, plus a slight crush. A press has far too much leverage to feel the anvil just make contact; I use a Sinclair priming tool sor my 1000 Yard loads, and a modified RCBS APS hand tool for everything else.

 

[la-shooter]

I got tired of reading all these good comments and not sure if it was said but why don’t you try carefully depriming the dud primers and then build a small fire...light it and back off a ways and you’ll have your answer soon. if they blow up then you’ll have a little time to sit and watch the fire and figure out ya did wrong. If they don’t go off then I’d be finding the number to customer service! Merry Christmas to all!

 

[jimbo88mm]

I believe it’s in primer pocket itself. Get a primer pocket reamer and remove the brass in corner of the primer pocket that Peterson’s machine failed to cut out.

I loaded 37 rounds of new Peterson brass and had 10 fail to fire.

I loaded 50 rounds of new Lapua brass with the same Lot of primers. All fired.

Primer pocket reamer removed many slivers of brass from the Peterson brass and none from the Lapua brass.

You might have more problems but that’s where I’d start.

Merry Christmas and luck to you and yours!

+1 on this.

I ran into a similar problem, brand new rifle (sav 112 338 LM), Peterson Brass.

I was getting about 20% failure to fire with CCI primers. I tried Winchester and federal primers. Didn't seem to have the problem but sure enough, a couple reloads later I had a few fails with winchester primers.

All the primers that failed to go off.. I tested them in a different case and they all went boom.


Turns out the issue was the primer pockets on the Peterson brass. Two different lots of brass, same issue. The primer pockets are very tight. I had to use a primer pocket uniformer and really worked hard at getting the primer pockets squared. The pockets are still tight, but now there is a clear bottoming out. I've not had a failure to fire since uniforming the pockets.. and I have to say.. it was work to get those pockets uniformed.

My recommendation on this issue is to either uniform the pockets or try a different brand of brass (which should confirm the issue is with the Peterson brass). My money is on the Peterson primer pockets.

I think its just a side affect of the brass design as they are using slightly tighter than saami spec.. and the brass is very tough.

 

[carlsbad]

Scott,
Good summary.

Notice Scott concluded likely combination of 2 or more borderline problems. The most difficult problems have multiple causes.

--Jerry

 

[Mad_Charlie]

I use the RCBS Ram Prime. After umpteen thousands of primers seated with it, I think that I have developed a very good feel for when a primer is well and properly seated. The only primer that has failed to fire for me in the last fifteen years could be directly traced to a combination of excessive head clearance and an excessively deep primer pocket. It was a Federal GM205MAR primer in new Lapua brass.

I have hand priming tools, but I am old enough to have a little arthritis in my fingers, therefore I prefer my Ram Prime.

I have never used Peterson cases, but it does sound like there could be an issue with the radius in the bottom of the primer pocket. A 60% failure rate with CCI BR's is an issue with cases or equipment (fire control), assuming that head clearance is correct.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Im betting its a headspace issue with the new barrel. If you dont have a no go gage start putting scotch tape on your go gage til you find the chamber measurement. My bet is its the nut’s fault in some way- you will never see that many bad cci primers if everybody on this forum sent every one bad in their lifetime in.

 

[Martin52]

I had a similar experience although the FTF rate was not as high as the OP's, probably 1:10 - I was using BR 4's in new Lapua Palma brass some of which was a bit on the short side, 1.628 compared to fired brass at 1.633. Not had a problem with BR 4's in brass that has been fired at least once (making sure the shoulders are not bumped back too much).

 

[dkhunt14]

The problem is almost always CCI or Russian primers and is because they are harder. Any problem like the good post Scott Harris gave and the problem shows up. It is not the primers and one or more problems on Scotts list. Most times, it is seating or headspace. Another problem, especially if you ever blanked a primer, can be stuff inside the bolt.

Switching to a softer primer is also not the answer. If ignition is poor, accuracy will suffer. Matt

 

[Jim G]

From my experience, CCI BR Primers are easy to crush. Anvils sit higher than the edge of the cup and you can easily push the anvil into the seal. Try using a K&M priming tool that uses the dial indicator to determine seating depth of the primer. Federal primers are near impossible to crush.

 

[jimmymac]

There isnt much reason to look much further. BR4s are a harder cup.

^^^^
This.

If you use Federal 205's I bet they all fire.

 

[Drop Port]

All good advice but the number one rule of trouble shooting is ONE thing at a time.

1- If the primers work in another rifle that will tell you the primers are fine and eliminate the primer.

2- If the primers are seated hard and head space is a in question WITHOUT a bullet screw that remage barrel down on the shoulder or scotch tape the cartridge shoulder to zero head space and snug bolt close if it goes bang head space is your problem or at lest part of your problem in combination with dirty bolt, dragging pin, short protrusion, weak spring, thick grease ..........etc. each of which can be checked one at a time.

 

[dsinfour]

I have shot primers from the 1960's and they shoot fine.. I would check firing spring and pin and headspace.. later