Dusty Stevens
Shiner
They still move em mike. Shoot 2, tweak, shoot 2, figure out whats what then go
Lapua does not recommend re-annealing?
- Thread starter DngBat7
- Start date
They still move em mike. Shoot 2, tweak, shoot 2, figure out whats what then go
OMG!!!
I knew there was a reason I never graduated from a neanderthal sling/coat shooter! LOL
Ok, I get that much...I do the same but once tuned, only a single two shot group to confirm tune on each card for a 5 target agg is 10 shots per class, minus sighters that they'd fire without a tuner. You said that you prep 15-20 cases for each. There is absolutely no reason why anyone should be firing more with a tuner than without. You're prepping 15-20 for a 5 shot record group. Why would a tuner mean you need triple THAT? That just doesn't make sense...or, it explains that there is still confusion out there about how to use a tuner. I'll admit that on very rare occasions, I've chased tune with the tuner and shot more than I would without one. Those days were my fault, not the tuner...but they are few and far between. I get that human nature may drive one to move it and shoot, more..but it's only because they are either moving it too far, missing the sweet spot or they are chasing something else...conditions or gun problems.
Don't get me wrong...I enjoy talking tuners with shooters but if it's as you say, they aren't listening..err some aren't. It's just way simpler than that! No need to over complicate them. One mark at a time...It either gets better or worse. If it gets better, you either stay with it or move another mark and go again. If it gets worse...go the other way 1 mark. Two marks is a HUGE swing!..so you can't be far out at ANY TIME! It doesn't get much easier than that. Sorry for the rant. I am always truly happy to discuss them with anyone that wants to better understand what I have found to work....every dang time! Tuners are freakin' game changers. But not if you're moving them too far and/or too often.
Dusty Stevens
Shiner
Most dont use your tuner and i see people cranking them like winding a clock
Then they deserve it!
Just kidding! There are makers that offer different instructions for theirs, some that offer none at all. I've only found ONE way that works....with any of them! I've tried them all. Anyone that hasn't tried moving their tuner 1/1000th at a time is cheating themselves out of properly using the best tool for BR in YEARS!It's theirs, though...they can use it right or wrong, their choice. And no, there is not more than one way to skin this cat....except blind ass luck.
edit:
I'm not going to change what I've said above...because I believe every bit of it BUT, I don't want to sound like it's impossible for me to be wrong. I am surely happy to hear from anyone that has a different method that works for them. Unless using a tuner seems like cheating and is the easiest tuning method you've ever found or imagined, I would like to ask you to try my method of tuning with one. They are just that, virtually if not completely without exception to my knowledge..the easiest way to tune a rifle that you can imagine. I didn't invent them and I don't make that claim but there has been so much misinformation about tuners, for so long, that I firmly believe that the only issue with having 100% success with a tuner is in how it's used. All tuners that I've ever seen, and are well made and properly installed, do work and work as I am happy to describe to anyone that asks and is willing to try my method to. Yes, I feel like my tuners are better than the other guys' and I hope that everyone agrees...but, to be honest, they all work very nearly the same way. Some are better than others but the principle that they all work on is the same. There are not some that require turning them 1/4, 1/2 or full turns...none of them, to my knowledge.
Ok...I'm done. Back to your regularly scheduled program.
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I think, as others have said, it's probably just the manufacturer trying to cover their collective a$$es. I only use Lapua brass with all of the calibres that I shoot (5). I have always annealed every firing. Even with their 6.5x47 brass, no issues....ever. And, I even used their factory loaded stuff for their brass before my order of brass arrived. And, I annealed that after the first firing. Brass life on the 6.5 case is approaching 20 cycles. (The biggest thing that gets my multiple fired cases headed for the garbage can is loose primer pockets after a dozen or more cycles.)
So my theory is that claim is Bovine Scatology.
If it's 6.5 Creedmore, everyone knows it anneals itself, leaving perfect neck tension, not even a hint of stretching or any of that other "pesky" stuff!(sarc)
So far this thread is up to seven pages. If you reread the opening, you should be able to determine they mean not to anneal again before the first loading. They do not mean to never anneal. Thus the "Off the shelf" description.
DngBat7
Silver $$ Contributor
second to last paragraph from Lapua website
http://www.lapua.com/en/headlines/399/What-is-the-Discoloration-on-My-Lapua-Brass
They are definitely saying not to reanneal
The worst part of this website. 128 replies to a simple question.
For the last time, no, it means that Lapua takes no position whatsoever on annealing. They do not recommend it, and the brass is properly annealed at the factory. Once it’s in your hands, they have no control over it at all. So if you choose to anneal, it’s entirely on you. Right, wrong,or indifferent, it’s on you. This question came about from having many customers calling in and asking what Lapua recommends as far as time, temp, method, etc., to reanneal their cases. Annealing is one of those operations that can be a positive if done correctly, a complete an total waste of time if done incorrectly, and potentially disastrous if it’s done REALLY poorly. Any one you choose, it’s your choice. Lapua simply isn’t advising for or against it in any way, shape or form.
Just read the article, I stand corrected. Thank you, but owning an AMP machine and after sending my annealed brass to them for metallurgical testing, it proves I am doing things properly. Most do not have the ability to do it correctly. So it is clearly a CYA reason why Lapua has said not to.
Why hasn't a rep from Lapua made a statement related to this on the thread
Dusty Stevens
Shiner
you know one you can ask to come in here? Kevin was a lapua rep up until like this week so I'd say his information is about as close as we're going to get.
I anneal frequently my W-W 7mm WSM brass ,many firings and I have zero split necks.
rkittine
Gold $$ Contributor
Since they talk about the results of case hardening and the "Cumulative" effect, I still would like to know it they are only talking about annealing an already annealed case the first time it is loaded from NEW Lapua brass, or never again?
"This movement hardens the brass a bit more. Every time this process is repeated, it adds to the hardening. The effect is cumulative, creating more damage over time. The case loses its ductility, or ability to “spring back” to its original dimensions. This can result in cracks and other failures in the brass. Ever break a wire coat hanger by bending it back and forth? Same concept exactly."
"This movement hardens the brass a bit more. Every time this process is repeated, it adds to the hardening. The effect is cumulative, creating more damage over time. The case loses its ductility, or ability to “spring back” to its original dimensions. This can result in cracks and other failures in the brass. Ever break a wire coat hanger by bending it back and forth? Same concept exactly."
True but according to the (fake tire data) industry that manufactures Nitrogen machines, you need 100% Nitrogen, or as close as you can get to it in your tires for all kinds of nonsensical reasons. Most reasons apply to Aviation, Space and race car applications.
I think some of those Nitrogen machines are $5k ... Its all part of the wallet flush culture that I have been resisting for 15 years now and I have lost the battle.
I anneal every time and even before, if I get a split shoulder and it isn't a from a fold when fire forming. I check spring back with an old mic., squeeze it a .0005 release the tension and see if it comes back to zero...... jim
Where did this quote come from...obviously NOT written by anybody that understands metal.
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