Lapua does not recommend re-annealing?

[6MT]

Hey all,

Was in Lapua’s website and for the 6.5 brass, they say they do not recommended Re-annealing their off the shelf factory annealed brass. Is their a reason for this? I know most on here anneal every time If I’m not wrong. So why does lapua say this and are they correct?

I think, as others have said, it's probably just the manufacturer trying to cover their collective a$$es. I only use Lapua brass with all of the calibres that I shoot (5). I have always annealed every firing. Even with their 6.5x47 brass, no issues....ever. And, I even used their factory loaded stuff for their brass before my order of brass arrived. And, I annealed that after the first firing. Brass life on the 6.5 case is approaching 20 cycles. (The biggest thing that gets my multiple fired cases headed for the garbage can is loose primer pockets after a dozen or more cycles.)

So my theory is that claim is Bovine Scatology.

 

[perazziguy]

If it's 6.5 Creedmore, everyone knows it anneals itself, leaving perfect neck tension, not even a hint of stretching or any of that other "pesky" stuff!(sarc)

 

[stifffingers]

Hey all,

Was in Lapua’s website and for the 6.5 brass, they say they do not recommended Re-annealing their off the shelf factory annealed brass. Is their a reason for this? I know most on here anneal every time If I’m not wrong. So why does lapua say this and are they correct?

So far this thread is up to seven pages. If you reread the opening, you should be able to determine they mean not to anneal again before the first loading. They do not mean to never anneal. Thus the "Off the shelf" description.

 

[DngBat7]

So far this thread is up to seven pages. If you reread the opening, you should be able to determine they mean not to anneal again before the first loading. They do not mean to never anneal. Thus the "Off the shelf" description.

So far this thread is up to seven pages. If you reread the opening, you should be able to determine they mean not to anneal again before the first loading. They do not mean to never anneal. Thus the "Off the shelf" description.

second to last paragraph from Lapua website

http://www.lapua.com/en/headlines/399/What-is-the-Discoloration-on-My-Lapua-Brass

They are definitely saying not to reanneal

 

[Webster]

second to last paragraph from Lapua website

http://www.lapua.com/en/headlines/399/What-is-the-Discoloration-on-My-Lapua-Brass

They are definitely saying not to reanneal

The worst part of this website. 128 replies to a simple question.

 

[KevinThomas]

So far this thread is up to seven pages. If you reread the opening, you should be able to determine they mean not to anneal again before the first loading. They do not mean to never anneal. Thus the "Off the shelf" description.

For the last time, no, it means that Lapua takes no position whatsoever on annealing. They do not recommend it, and the brass is properly annealed at the factory. Once it’s in your hands, they have no control over it at all. So if you choose to anneal, it’s entirely on you. Right, wrong,or indifferent, it’s on you. This question came about from having many customers calling in and asking what Lapua recommends as far as time, temp, method, etc., to reanneal their cases. Annealing is one of those operations that can be a positive if done correctly, a complete an total waste of time if done incorrectly, and potentially disastrous if it’s done REALLY poorly. Any one you choose, it’s your choice. Lapua simply isn’t advising for or against it in any way, shape or form.

 

[stifffingers]

second to last paragraph from Lapua website

http://www.lapua.com/en/headlines/399/What-is-the-Discoloration-on-My-Lapua-Brass

They are definitely saying not to reanneal

Just read the article, I stand corrected. Thank you, but owning an AMP machine and after sending my annealed brass to them for metallurgical testing, it proves I am doing things properly. Most do not have the ability to do it correctly. So it is clearly a CYA reason why Lapua has said not to.

 

[fatheeler]

Just read the article, I stand corrected. Thank you, but owning an AMP machine and after sending my annealed brass to them for metallurgical testing, it proves I am doing things properly. Most do not have the ability to do it correctly. So it is clearly a CYA reason why Lapua has said not to.

Why hasn't a rep from Lapua made a statement related to this on the thread

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Why hasn't a rep from Lapua made a statement related to this on the thread

you know one you can ask to come in here? Kevin was a lapua rep up until like this week so I'd say his information is about as close as we're going to get.

 

[Ironworker]

I anneal frequently my W-W 7mm WSM brass ,many firings and I have zero split necks.

 

[johara1]

I never had a split neck, I did and do get split shoulders on NEW Lapua brass. Some from factory induced folds and some from improper factory annealing....jim

 

[rkittine]

Since they talk about the results of case hardening and the "Cumulative" effect, I still would like to know it they are only talking about annealing an already annealed case the first time it is loaded from NEW Lapua brass, or never again?

"This movement hardens the brass a bit more. Every time this process is repeated, it adds to the hardening. The effect is cumulative, creating more damage over time. The case loses its ductility, or ability to “spring back” to its original dimensions. This can result in cracks and other failures in the brass. Ever break a wire coat hanger by bending it back and forth? Same concept exactly."

 

[rr2030]

air is 78.5% Nitrogen

True but according to the (fake tire data) industry that manufactures Nitrogen machines, you need 100% Nitrogen, or as close as you can get to it in your tires for all kinds of nonsensical reasons. Most reasons apply to Aviation, Space and race car applications.
I think some of those Nitrogen machines are $5k ... Its all part of the wallet flush culture that I have been resisting for 15 years now and I have lost the battle.

 

[johara1]

Since they talk about the results of case hardening and the "Cumulative" effect, I still would like to know it they are only talking about annealing an already annealed case the first time it is loaded from NEW Lapua brass, or never again?

"This movement hardens the brass a bit more. Every time this process is repeated, it adds to the hardening. The effect is cumulative, creating more damage over time. The case loses its ductility, or ability to “spring back” to its original dimensions. This can result in cracks and other failures in the brass. Ever break a wire coat hanger by bending it back and forth? Same concept exactly."

I anneal every time and even before, if I get a split shoulder and it isn't a from a fold when fire forming. I check spring back with an old mic., squeeze it a .0005 release the tension and see if it comes back to zero...... jim

 

[riflewoman]

Since they talk about the results of case hardening and the "Cumulative" effect, I still would like to know it they are only talking about annealing an already annealed case the first time it is loaded from NEW Lapua brass, or never again?

"This movement hardens the brass a bit more. Every time this process is repeated, it adds to the hardening. The effect is cumulative, creating more damage over time. The case loses its ductility, or ability to “spring back” to its original dimensions. This can result in cracks and other failures in the brass. Ever break a wire coat hanger by bending it back and forth? Same concept exactly."

Where did this quote come from...obviously NOT written by anybody that understands metal.

 

[TC260]

Where did this quote come from...obviously NOT written by anybody that understands metal.

Yes it's written in layman's terms so the language isn't especially precise but what specifically is so far off the mark?

 

[AckleymanII]

The air put into tires using a standard air compressor is about 78% Nitrogen and 21% oxygen. That same concentration goes into your lungs.
We had a phosgene generator in one of the units I worked in and when we changed out the carbon bed, It would take about 3 days using heated nitrogen to purge all of the oxygen out.
The tire guys have a racket going.

change the mix to 100% helium and you will get 10 more miles per gallon!

 

[riflewoman]

Since they talk about the results of case hardening and the "Cumulative" effect, I still would like to know it they are only talking about annealing an already annealed case the first time it is loaded from NEW Lapua brass, or never again?

"This movement hardens the brass a bit more. Every time this process is repeated, it adds to the hardening. The effect is cumulative, creating more damage over time. The case loses its ductility, or ability to “spring back” to its original dimensions. This can result in cracks and other failures in the brass. Ever break a wire coat hanger by bending it back and forth? Same concept exactly."

I am going to limit myself to the second paragraph...

I am presuming the “movement” is the sizing and expansion of a shoot-reload cycle? It does add to the hardening but the increase is not linear. Up until a split the “damage” is reversible.

Ductility is not the ability to “spring back” to original dimensions. That is ELASTICITY. Super strong and hard tool steels have the same elasticity as cheap hot rolled stock. The tool steel has limited ductility, less than the cheap stuff. Ductility is the ability to be permanently stretched or formed by bending. Malleability is the ability to be cold formed by hammering. Which is why stronger steels need to be hot forged. A coat hanger bent back and forth tends to fail by strain based fatigue but that is an over simplification. It isn’t from cold work as the number of reversals is too low.

I respond like this because terminology matters. The vast majority of readers on these sites have no clue about how metals react. So we get this erroneous stuff and then a search engine finds it. Someone repeats it and then it becomes “gospel” becuz “I Red it on de internet in sum hide sumwere. “.

 

[KevinThomas]

I never had a split neck, I did and do get split shoulders on NEW Lapua brass. Some from factory induced folds and some from improper factory annealing....jim

The split shoulders are a factory defect (which should be caught during final inspection, but will occasionally slip through), and are normally only seen on a few cartridges. Specifically, the 6.5x47L, the 6mmBR and the 6.5x284 cases. The one thing that all of these have in common is a relatively large body diameter in relation to al relatively small neck dimension. While the material should (emphasis on “should”) form smoothly during the necking phase, it occasionally fails to do so, resulting in a small divot at the neck/shoulder juncture. While this is infrequently seen in other calibers as well, it’s very unusual. With the three cartridges I mentioned, it’s an ongoing struggle for every production run. As I said, it’s considered a production defect, and they will readily replace the cases for you if you let them know about it. Believe me, I replaced plenty over the years, and it’s not an issue. Just let them know, and they’ll take care of you.

 

[johara1]

The split shoulders are a factory defect (which should be caught during final inspection, but will occasionally slip through), and are normally only seen on a few cartridges. Specifically, the 6.5x47L, the 6mmBR and the 6.5x284 cases. The one thing that all of these have in common is a relatively large body diameter in relation to al relatively small neck dimension. While the material should (emphasis on “should”) form smoothly during the necking phase, it occasionally fails to do so, resulting in a small divot at the neck/shoulder juncture. While this is infrequently seen in other calibers as well, it’s very unusual. With the three cartridges I mentioned, it’s an ongoing struggle for every production run. As I said, it’s considered a production defect, and they will readily replace the cases for you if you let them know about it. Believe me, I replaced plenty over the years, and it’s not an issue. Just let them know, and they’ll take care of you.

I have been waiting about 7 years...... what good are a 1000 of one lot and 12 of an other....... zip....... jim