Just how much copper can live in a barrel?

[Mulligan]

Confession, I suck at barrel cleaning!
This is the muzzle end of an old (worn-out) barrel I am experimenting with.
I thought the barrel was clean, I soaked (several loose wet patches) it in Patch-out after a patch of accelerator was pushed through the barrel. I left it "soaking" for 5 days while i was out of town.
This morning I pushed some patches through the barrel, boy-oh-boy where they ever blue!
On inspection of the barrel i noticed the copper fowling in the groves.... i have never seen this before. Yikes!!
This cleaner gets all sudsy, lots of black/brown gunk also came out with the first few patches.



I have to admit, i did not know you could load a barrel up with copper like this...... I wonder if the dog-gone thing will shoot once it is really clean?

So far, I would say it cleans better then Butches or Hoppes.
CW

 

[JeffG]

just a thought.. if you are using brass brushes they might be turning your patches blue too.

 

[Jose_Luis_G]

It seems to be an M96. Am I right?
Fill it completely with ammonia. Place a cork in one end and fill it to the other end.
Stirr with a wire to eliminate all bubbles, and let it overnight. Yes, overnight.
At the other day, drop the ammonia and clean deeply with patches and oil for barrels, say Ballistol Kleber or similar.
The let us know how has it gone.

 

[watercam]

Sweet's 7.62 has a very high ammonia content (along with detergent I believe). Sweet's says not to leave their product in the barrel more than 15 minutes. I would not leave a barrel filled with ammonia over night if I cared about the barrel.
Sweet's is the traditional answer to removing copper and has done a very fine job of it for most competitive shooters I know. Patch it in, wait a few minutes, patch out. Repeat until the blue is nearly gone (your brass jag will give false positives). Patch 2-3 times with regular solvent to dilute the ammonia and dry patch.
Match barrels should not collect much fouling. It is not uncommon for active competitive shooters to go 200-500 rounds between cleanings depending upon the individual barrel. Factory barrels tend to collect much more fouling.
Your question regarding how much copper to leave depends upon each individual barrel - some will shoot well fouled, some like to be cleaned often. Experiment. I looked at a Marlin 336 in 30-30 once that had copper completely filling the bore/land corners and had some forced out onto the crown. No doubt the person who dumped it at a pawn shop did so because it would not shoot well any more. I bought it, cleaned the bore only and sold it for double what I paid for it.

 

[ebb]

I cleaned a 300wm for a friend that would shoot 12inches at 100yds. It had only been cleaned with a bore snake since new, less than 200 rnds. The grooves all looked to be gold plated. Cleaned twice with foaming bore cleaner and twice with copper solvent. It shoots less than an inch now. I scoped it and there was a tiny bit of copper in one groove in the top of the barrel, I think gravity makes the cleaner drip to the bottom so I turned the gun upside down in the cleaning cradle and ran copper solvent once more. He killed a nice 5x5 elk a couple of weeks later.

 

[Shynloco]

In response to Jeff G's remark above.

+1. Which is why I also use Nylon Brushes in addition to the copper brushes I use for a healthy cleaning after every shooting session. I do get blue patches even after having a clean barrel using copper brushes, but they turn to white shortly after running a Nylon brush using Butches. Bottom line, use whatever you think works best for you to rid the barrel of the copper build up that affects the travel of the bullet down the barrel.

Alex

 

[Cool Tool]

Confession, I suck at barrel cleaning!
This is the muzzle end of an old (worn-out) barrel I am experimenting with.
I thought the barrel was clean, I soaked (several loose wet patches) it in Patch-out after a patch of accelerator was pushed through the barrel. I left it "soaking" for 5 days while i was out of town.
This morning I pushed some patches through the barrel, boy-oh-boy where they ever blue!
On inspection of the barrel i noticed the copper fowling in the groves.... i have never seen this before. Yikes!!
This cleaner gets all sudsy, lots of black/brown gunk also came out with the first few patches.


View attachment 992864
I have to admit, i did not know you could load a barrel up with copper like this...... I wonder if the dog-gone thing will shoot once it is really clean?

So far, I would say it cleans better then Butches or Hoppes.
CW

what kind of cleaner an how many rounds through the barrel

 

[Shynloco]

Why an the world do you use nylon brushes I don't care what brand of barrel that is a waste

Obviously you are unfamiliar with loose micro-particles left in a barrel by a copper brush. That's tells me a lot about what you know about cleaning a barrel.

 

[Greyfox]

I once bought a Cooper in Tac 20 used. I shot it a few times and decided it need a good cleaning. I did 10 applications of Patch Out w? Accelerator before it stopped showing copper. Each time I removed more copper. On the 3rd or 4th application I pulled spirals of copper. The thing is, it shot about the same after cleaning as before, about 1/2 MOA. You never know, but a good cleaning never hurts.

On another note, I NEVER use brass brushes, only Patch Out W/Accelerator on jags with cotton patches. My barrels are clean. Bore scopes don't lie and I've won my share of matches. Our friend just above this post (#10) may have forgotten a lot about barrels, but it looks like there may be a couple things he never knew.....just kidding.

Rick

 

[savagedasher]

I would lie to pose a question for you cleaning gurus what is the difference in putting a bronze brush down a barrel over a bullet

3000 FPS smile Larry

 

[Cool Tool]

3000 FPS smile Larry

That's funny I don't care who you are

 

[savagedasher]

That's funny I don't care who you are

Thanks I brush mine almost that fast . Larry

 

[Cool Tool]

3000 FPS smile Larry

An that's my point

 

[savagedasher]

An that's my point

How someone can shoot a bullet down a barrel and then worry about a brush is beyond me.
They have no problem putting harsh chemicals in. Larry

 

[Cool Tool]

Thanks I brush mine almost that fast . Larry

Larry bronze or nylon

 

[wholman]

Yes sir that is funny

 

[savagedasher]

Yes sir that is funny

Do you need to ask bronze Larry

 

[K22]

I recently tried Bore Tech's C+2 copper remover and I must say that I was impressed. It has the added benefit that it doesn't smell. The wife likes that.

I used copper free jags and nylon brushes per Bore Tech's instructions. The reason for using copper free jags and nylon brushes for copper removal is to avoid false positives and cross contamination i.e. reaction of the copper solvent with the copper in bronze and brass brushes/ jags.

I still like to use bronze brushes for carbon fouling removal. I like the mechanical action to help avoid carbon build up. I basically clean first to remove carbon fouling using Shooter's Choice, dry patch then use the Bore Tech Copper remover to remove copper.

 

[wholman]

No sir im a bronze guy

 

[ShootDots]

Copper, given enough of it in a bore, will adversely effect accuracy. However, in my opinion, hard carbon build-up is the REAL culprit in the destruction of accuracy. Once you really scrub your barrel down to the bone and get ALL the carbon and copper out, start and pursue an excellent cleaning regimen! I use bronze brushes and Bore-Tech Carbon Remover and Bore-Tech Eliminator and or Montana Extreme Copper Killer for copper. Remember also, right at the onset of the throat is critical>>>>that is where a "carbon ring" can build up and drive pressures and annihilate accuracy! Bronze brushes for the "loose" carbon and Iosso "Blue Nylon Brushes" for scrubbing out hard carbon and copper with the proper solvents listed above..