Interesting Criteria for Private Firearms Sale...

[RockyMtnMan]

I am a member of a closed group on Facebook that is specifically designed for only the members to post classified adds for guns, hunting gear, shooting equipment, etc. All members are from my home state of Montana.

As I was reading through the adds, a fella had a Remington 700 for sale. In his add he stated: "must have a concealed weapon license, FFL license, or pass a Federal background check at your own expense to purchase this firearm if I do not personally know you"

At first I thought of his statement as coming off in a slightly anti-gun manner, but then I thought about it for a while...Why not sell out guns this way through private sales? I imagine the reason he is doing this is because you can ship a firearm from one individual to another individual within the state of Montana without the need of a FFL dealer or background check. Shipping out of state, there is no choice but to ship it to a FFL.

It would help reduce the chance of a gun getting into the hands of a violent or mentally dimented criminal within our state. If they did not have a FFL or Concealed Weapon License, the background check would be a little inconvenience, but if they are a law abiding citizen wanting to purchase a firearm, they have nothing to worry about. I know that is not fool proof by any means, but it would definitely weed some of the bad guys out. Dealers are required to conduct background checks, why shouldn't we do it ourselves if we want to?

I fully support private firearm sales as I have sold many firearms that way myself, but this has me thinking...This is definitely a way to help keep guns out of the wrong hands within our own state. I'm still kind of on the fence about it, but am leaning towards this man's method of private firearm sales within my own state.

What are your thoughts on this?

 

[savagedasher]

I am a member of a closed group on Facebook that is specifically designed for only the members to post classified adds for guns, hunting gear, shooting equipment, etc. All members are from my home state of Montana.

As I was reading through the adds, a fella had a Remington 700 for sale. In his add he stated: "must have a concealed weapon license, FFL license, or pass a Federal background check at your own expense to purchase this firearm if I do not personally know you"

At first I thought of his statement as coming off in a slightly anti-gun manner, but then I thought about it for a while...Why not sell out guns this way through private sales? I imagine the reason he is doing this is because you can ship a firearm from one individual to another individual within the state of Montana without the need of a FFL dealer or background check. Shipping out of state, there is no choice but to ship it to a FFL.

It would help reduce the chance of a gun getting into the hands of a violent or mentally dimented criminal within our state. If they did not have a FFL or Concealed Weapon License, the background check would be a little inconvenience, but if they are a law abiding citizen wanting to purchase a firearm, they have nothing to worry about. I know that is not fool.proof by any means, but it would definitely weed some of the bad guys out. Dealers are required to conduct background checks, why shouldn't we do it ourselves if we want to?

I fully support private firearm sales as I have sold many firearms that way myself, but this has me thinking...This is definitely a way to help keep guns out of the wrong hands within our own state. I'm still kind of on the fence about it, but am leaning towards this man's method of private firearm sales within my own state.

What are your thoughts on this?

I have bought and sold guns that way. Now I would only do it with someone I know. I call it C Y A I think all guns should go through a FFL. The shooting in California proved it to me. Larry

 

[Dusty Stevens]

the trouble the guy is in for the san bernardino shooting shows this is a good idea. thats not counting all the stupid stuff he did just the gun sale. nobody i know that owns guns is so desperate to sell that they would want one used in a bad manner. i just dont want the govt telling me i have to do it.

 

[RockyMtnMan]

the trouble the guy is in for the san bernardino shooting shows this is a good idea. thats not counting all the stupid stuff he did just the gun sale. nobody i know that owns guns is so desperate to sell that they would want one used in a bad manner. i just dont want the govt telling me i have to do it.

I agree. I wouldn't want the government putting this into law because if you give them an inch, they want to take a mile. But I see it as a reasonable effort that we as a society of law abiding gun owners can take upon ourselves, at our own discretion, to help reduce the number of guns that find their way into the hands of criminals.

 

[TheOtherZilla]

I have always done something similar. I ask for a DL, etc, and in my load data note book I write down the firearm, S/N, purchaser and date.. I also keep in the same book a list of all my firearms, cameras and their pertinant info..

 

[Berger.Fan222]

On average, adding to the cost and time and effort required for any kind of purchase transaction will reduce the average sale price. Whether it is worth it or not is up to the individual seller, but it is silly to pretend that the buyer is bearing the entire cost.

 

[Jammer Six]

I'd sell a gun to anyone I would sell a car to. Which is anyone with cash.

 

[Taildrag15X]

I have covered my butt over the years with Names, Addresses, DL Number, firearm info, etc....just in case I sold it to the wrong guy.

Now it's Law here in New York, No private transfer of any kind, all firearm transfers must go through a NICS at a FFL Dealer, some have taken advantage and overcharge as much as $100.00 to make the call.

 

[spclark]

I have covered my butt over the years with Names, Addresses, DL Number, firearm info, etc....just in case I sold it to the wrong guy.

Been my practice too since first passing something least used on to a new owner. It was required when I lived in Illinois (keep records 7 years) now habit after I move into WI. To my thinking it's CYA, plain & simple.

 

[justpassinthru]

I do what is required by the law in my state, nothing more, nothing less. Still though, if something didn't feel right about the deal, I would walk away.

 

['Freak]

How is a law abiding but non-FFL holding private citizen supposed to go about initiating a Federal Instant Background Check either on their self if the buyer, or if the seller, on another also non-FFL holding private citizen? As it stands, the Fed’s background check system is another of their bureaucratic bad jokes that does not cater to the lowly unlicensed and so presumed guilty, until. Maybe if that’s how they treated murders …

 

[savagedasher]

How is a law abiding but non-FFL holding private citizen supposed to go about initiating a Federal Instant Background Check either on their self if the buyer, or if the seller, on another also non-FFL holding private citizen? As it stands, the Fed’s background check system is another of their bureaucratic bad jokes that does not cater to the lowly unlicensed and so presumed guilty, until. Maybe if that’s how they treated murders …

 

[savagedasher]

All I want is for the serial number be in someone else name. Like selling a car and not transferring the title.
One trip to the lawyer and all profit are gone. Just me Lary

 

[GeorgeSpringer]

Here is a link that will provide some additional information on private sales.http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/20...em-now-has-classifications-for-private-sales/

Read the letter to the FFL's; once you go to a FFL for a private transfer they are required to enter the gun into their book so a 4473 will need to be completed and if the transaction is denied or delayed they will have to do another 4473 and NICS check to return your gun to you. I doubt they will do the return check for free so be prepared for the additional cost.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

Just remember when everyone has to do a background check, all they have to do then is change the criteria to pass a background check. Already a felon cant own a gun, I disagree with this. Gun related felonies, yes, but not all should prevent gun ownership IMO.

 

[Keith Glasscock]

I can see arguments for and against this type of thing.

For example, the "news" reported that the San Bernadino TERRORISTS passed background checks to acquire pistols. Don't know if it is true, then this standard would only keep firearms out of the hands of truly evil people a fractional portion of times.

On the other hand, it does give the seller some level of cover in having done as much due diligence as possible to ensure that the buyer was not somehow a known criminal. In a way, the seller is trying to unload the legal liability to the government *if* something bad happens.

Would I, or did I (my home state has made an FFL a requirement for all transfers - Ugh!) do this type of CYA? Of course! I also did a little more - I looked at the buyer's behavior. Nervous people make me nervous as well. Would this completely prevent bad outcomes? - NO! Just like FFL's doing background checks, evil will find a way to slip through.

The only way to stop an evil person from committing an evil act is to give them no chance of completing their act before they die. In other words, good guys with guns.

:Soap Box kicked across room:

 

[RockyMtnMan]

It's definitely not fool proof. But I think it would help negate habitual criminals from getting their hands on guns. It won't necessarily prevent it, but I think it would help.

Terrorist cells are smart because they know they must remain undetected and out of the spot light. They are well funded and often good contributors to society until called upon to strike. A terrorist and an every day criminal are two totally different animals.

 

[shortgrass]

"Yes, agent brown, I bought that revolver from XYZ gun shop. I couldn't hit a damn thing with it, it just didn't fit me, so I sold it to (enter buyers name here). Here's a photo copy of his driver license. His face matched the photo on the license." Or,,,,, "I felt uneasy about just selling it, so we went down to ABC gunshop and he did the tranfer paper work." Due Diligence, as mentioed above. Had a piece on the local news here, about a year ago. A known felon was observed by an off duty city police officer buying a handgun from a private seller at a gunshow. The off duty officer called the station and they pulled the guy over after he left the parking lot at the gun show (he had a burned out brake light) and he was arrested for possesion of a firearm. ATF got involved and the "private seller" was prosecuted. He hadn't done his 'due diligence' (didn't know the buyers name, didn't know anything, no receipt, no nothing). It's as illegal for a private citzen to sell /lend a firearm to a prohibited person as it is for a dealer to sell to a prohibited person. It's not often enforced but when it is, and it results in a conviction, the 'convict' is now a felon,,,,,,, and losses alot of rights, including the right to own firearms..........

 

[TheOtherZilla]

Sure glad I live in Wyoming

 

[Taildrag15X]

How is a law abiding but non-FFL holding private citizen supposed to go about initiating a Federal Instant Background Check either on their self if the buyer, or if the seller, on another also non-FFL holding private citizen? As it stands, the Fed’s background check system is another of their bureaucratic bad jokes that does not cater to the lowly unlicensed and so presumed guilty, until. Maybe if that’s how they treated murders …

It's simple, you meet the buyer at a Gun Shop that will do private transfers, Gander Mountain has been the best place since they don't stock squat any longer it's never busy. The seller hands the firearm over to the FFL and says we're here for a New York SAFE Act Private Sale, the FFL hands the buyer AFT 4473 to fill out. If all goes well with NICS the buyer and seller walk out both happy, if there is a Delay or Denial is where it gets interesting. If either happen the seller will then have to pass a NICS and pay a transfer to get his firearm back, and if the firearm is a pistol there's NY State Sullivan Act Laws which have to be followed to be "legal".