Induction brass annealer redux

[Gina1]

Sheeeesh.... WOW again. My hat is off to you !! Lots of nice innovations.
You may be on the right track with your different coil designs. I've often wondered why with no case in the coil, we were pulling about 8.6 amps.
The coil size we are using we know, works well for 1/4" cases (308, 30-06, 6XC, etc), As I said you are in new territory
Looking forward to see more pictures as you near completion.

Gina

 

[GrocMax]

Tested the case feed setup, works . Quite a bit of fab before its mounted and a proper tube gets made but 2 person holding it by hand it works. Trap door catches it every time, no drop errors with proper tube aim.

 

[FishinDog]

Been watching this thread for a while and I'm taking the plunge to build one and move on from my home built propane annealer! Lot's of great work done designing this and I can't wait to get started. Amazon parts on order and ordered a pair of 12 volt fans from Jameco to get the free shipping code. I'll start posting pics as I start putting everything together; most likely I'll have lots of questions too Thanks again for all the great work and camaraderie designing the GinaErick!

David (aka fishindog)

 

[GrocMax]

Did some further testing. In case anyone is interested this induction board output operates right around 110KHz. Seems to float a bit probably depends on the temp of the tank capacitors. From all the papers I've been reading 110K Hz is a very good range for copper/brass alloy heating at shallow depths. The active heat layer is approx. .015" deep at 110KHz.

 

[Gina1]

Did some further testing. In case anyone is interested this induction board output operates right around 110KHz. Seems to float a bit probably depends on the temp of the tank capacitors. From all the papers I've been reading 110K Hz is a very good range for copper/brass alloy heating at shallow depths.

My O scope broke a few years ago, never replaced it. Always wondered what frequency the inductor PCB was at. Thanks for the info.
Something to think about, was brought to my attention a month ago. Would this systems (all GinaErick's) have an effect on a pacemaker?

 

[Gina1]

Tested the case feed setup, works . Quite a bit of fab before its mounted and a proper tube gets made but 2 person holding it by hand it works. Trap door catches it every time, no drop errors with proper tube aim.

Looking forward to seeing it in "action"

 

[Gina1]

Been watching this thread for a while and I'm taking the plunge to build one and move on from my home built propane annealer! Lot's of great work done designing this and I can't wait to get started. Amazon parts on order and ordered a pair of 12 volt fans from Jameco to get the free shipping code. I'll start posting pics as I start putting everything together; most likely I'll have lots of questions too Thanks again for all the great work and camaraderie designing the GinaErick!

David (aka fishindog)

Need help, PM me

 

[SheepDog]

I don't believe the magnetic field extends much beyond the coil so I wouldn't expect it to affect a pacemaker at all. The reason hf radio affects them is it screws with the programming and timer. They use a rf signal to make changes to the pulse timing and width as well as the upper and lower limits of its range. "Ain't science wundrfull?"

 

[bertn]

This PS has externally adjustable voltage and current limiter (knobs on front) thus the need for a 5v supply from a LVR. Doing 221FB to 300WM with lots of 223 based and 6BR. Note black knob on bottom, this is the height adjustment, screw jacks the baseplate up and down within the T-slot cut in the front plate. Front plate is a piece of 3mm green Garolite (think 'paper'glass) I had laying around.

Induction PCB has heatsinks glued on the bottom of the board. Fan is shrouded and blows right at 'er.

Went with a 'tennis racket' style trapdoor instead of a direct slide, figured it would be easier with the optical sensor location, plus the spring pre-tension, stroke and leverage are easily set up, those things don't pull worth a darned and are slow when the rod is almost out of the solenoid. Small chain link allows for bind free operation as it swings thru its arc. Brass shoulder screw on pivot and the nylon screw right next to it is the closed position stop.

Oh and the best part- Holley carburetor float soldered to the radiator as the radiator expansion tank, with coolant level sight tube and vent.

You sure go all the way with this!! Great job!

How much height adjustment do you have in the shelf?
What's the white cylinder on top of the shelf? Is it to center the cases?
I'm racking my brain to come up with a good way to make something that can easily be adjusted for centering different case diameters.

Is your coolant not going to be a closed loop system? If it's closed then you don't need to worry about the coolant level right?

Keep up the good work and thanks for the update with pics.

 

[GrocMax]

Shelf moves about 2 1/2". The platform is in a t-slot in the face, a simple threaded rod on a knob on the bottom is captive but free to rotate in the bottom case panel, and the platform has threads. White cylinder is the teflon 'guide' to keep cases from bouncing out, is case family or diameter specific 223, 308/243/22-250/6BR, 300WM. Coolant is closed loop but want expansion room and venting.

here's a pic

 

[GrocMax]

Today's most boring video-

Notes: boilerplate setup, tube is too high, wrong tube diameter (piece of PVC laying around).

Note there's a few 'bouncers', the funnel/guide keeps them in check they drop into place eventually, the start signal doesn't happen till the case is in position.


I just noticed this- # 29 it doesn't trip the stop switch and drops a case. There was some really dirty nasty tarnished brass in with this.

 

[Hollywood]

Today's most boring video-

Notes: boilerplate setup, tube is too high, wrong tube diameter (piece of PVC laying around).

Note there's a few 'bouncers', the funnel/guide keeps them in check they drop into place eventually, the start signal doesn't happen till the case is in position.

That is sweet! Thats a quality improvement on my original design. Is it running a continious 15 amp draw?

 

[GrocMax]

That is sweet! Thats a quality improvement on my original design. Is it running a continious 15 amp draw?

Not annealing at all. I'm assuming the meter is seeing 15v from the internal ground path but there's no ground (relay) on the induction board. Need to fix up the cooling system and get it right first. But it does work at 15A (750w) and does 223 cases in about 2 seconds or less. 15A is FAST. This PS has an externally adjustable current limit that actually works well, you can set the current limit with no case in, and it adjusts voltage to maintain your set current limit. The two knobs were for voltage and current adjustment but if both are enabled they fight each other, using just the current limit works well.

 

[Hollywood]

Not annealing at all. Need to fix up the cooling system and get it right first. But it does work at 15A (750w) and does 223 cases in about 2 seconds or less. 15A is FAST. This PS has an externally adjustable current limit that actually works well, you can set the current limit with no case in, and it adjusts voltage to maintain your set current limit.

I have a 750w PS I need to incorporate into mine. I'll have to build a slightly larger box for it to fit though. What is the trap door made of? It looked like metal. Did the induction have any affect on it if it is metal?

 

[GrocMax]

I have a 750w PS I need to incorporate into mine. I'll have to build a slightly larger box for it to fit though. What is the trap door made of? It looked like metal. Did the induction have any affect on it if it is metal?

I had a piece of 3mm thick green Garolite ('paperglass') laying around, the front panel, trap door paddle are Garolite, the platform is polycarbonate, there's no metal under the coil. There is a brass shoulder screw for the trapdoor pivot but it should be outside the flux field, doesn't seem to get warm. Supposedly as long as you run the coil legs close together the flux field is cancelled out, but anything in between the two legs can be 'fluxed up'.

 

[Hollywood]

I had a piece of 3mm thick green Garolite ('paperglass') laying around, the front panel, trap door paddle are Garolite, the platform is polycarbonate, there's no metal under the coil. There is a brass shoulder screw for the trapdoor pivot but it should be outside the flux field, doesn't seem to get warm. Supposedly as long as you run the coil legs close together the flux field is cancelled out, but anything in between the two legs can be 'fluxed up'.

I do remember reading "paper glass" in a prior post, now that I read it again. Thanks.

 

[Gina1]

Not annealing at all. I'm assuming the meter is seeing 15v from the internal ground path but there's no ground (relay) on the induction board. Need to fix up the cooling system and get it right first. But it does work at 15A (750w) and does 223 cases in about 2 seconds or less. 15A is FAST. This PS has an externally adjustable current limit that actually works well, you can set the current limit with no case in, and it adjusts voltage to maintain your set current limit. The two knobs were for voltage and current adjustment but if both are enabled they fight each other, using just the current limit works well.

Scott....
Nice move on your part, upgrading to the Mean Well RPS 750-48. Although the RPS power supply is more money than the 600 watt PS, the programmable part of it (adjustable) is a really nice touch. Also 15 amps Vs 12.5 means faster annealing times.
Correct me if I'm wrong,to better understand this, the way you have it set up is the RPS power supply is adjusted to feed the induction PCB 15 amps when it is powered on (annealing). RPS power supply adjusts the output voltage to keep the input current to the inductor PCB a constant 15 amps....... Sweet. No more adjusting the case height to get the correct current output from the power supply.( In the case of the 600W PS, 12 amps).
As I understand it.... All you do is make sure the neck and shoulders are in the coil, and your systems automatically sets the current to a limited 15 amps/ not really caring where the PS voltage is set ? Then all you have to do is set the annealing time, on timer A... Really, really nicely thought out system. My hat is off to you.

Wow the improvements everyone has made, since the early GinaEric annealer came out.

Unfortunately my PS-600-48 power supply does not have that feature.... Darn.. So I wont be able to follow in your foot steeps.

 

[GrocMax]

Yes, there are 4 features on this PS not present on the more economical models, it has remote voltage sensing, you hook up two wires to your load source terminals and it will automatically adjust the voltage up to 0.5v for voltage drop between the PS and the load, remote switching, and the remote voltage and current limit adjustments. I think the current limiter is going to come in quite handy especially for setups for different cases, and being able to gain consistency. If you set the current limit to say 13A, the voltage is not constant (up to the limit you set with the pot on the PS itself) but the current is set to reach 13A and the voltage varies to maintain 13A.

I may have an issue with too cheap and floaty of pots, went cheap on them, just 3 dollar one turn panel mounts, may need to get decent multiturn precision pots for consistency, or wire in a 10 position switch for the current that steps the limit in say 0.5A increments.

You guys did a good job spec'ing out the most economical way to complete the project, those of us who wish can fancy it up from there.

 

[FishinDog]

Not annealing at all. I'm assuming the meter is seeing 15v from the internal ground path but there's no ground (relay) on the induction board. Need to fix up the cooling system and get it right first. But it does work at 15A (750w) and does 223 cases in about 2 seconds or less. 15A is FAST. This PS has an externally adjustable current limit that actually works well, you can set the current limit with no case in, and it adjusts voltage to maintain your set current limit. The two knobs were for voltage and current adjustment but if both are enabled they fight each other, using just the current limit works well.

I'm getting ready to order my parts from Jameco and decided to upgrade to the same 750w power supply. Looks like you need 2-5vdc to adjust the voltage. Are your knobs potentiometers limiting a 5vdc source for your adjustment voltage? If so, what potentiometer and voltage source are you using? I'd rather not add a 5vdc power supply; suggestions on knocking down my 12 vdc to 5?

Yes, there are 4 features on this PS not present on the more economical models, it has remote voltage sensing, you hook up two wires to your load source terminals and it will automatically adjust the voltage up to 0.5v for voltage drop between the PS and the load, remote switching, and the remote voltage and current limit adjustments. I think the current limiter is going to come in quite handy especially for setups for different cases, and being able to gain consistency. If you set the current limit to say 13A, the voltage is not constant (up to the limit you set with the pot on the PS itself) but the current is set to reach 13A and the voltage varies to maintain 13A.

I may have an issue with too cheap and floaty of pots, went cheap on them, just 3 dollar one turn panel mounts, may need to get decent multiturn precision pots for consistency, or wire in a 10 position switch for the current that steps the limit in say 0.5A increments.

You guys did a good job spec'ing out the most economical way to complete the project, those of us who wish can fancy it up from there.

I'm getting ready to place my Jameco order, including the 750 W power supply you're using. Any recommendations on a 5vdc supply and precision potentiometer to adjust the voltage the way you outline?

 

[GrocMax]

See a few pages back on the 5v linear regulator and sub board.
In your case you can buy a small 5v LR for less than 5 bucks online.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01G3KLPUO/?tag=accuratescom-20

I'll draw up the circuit to show how its done, but in essence you put 5v into leg A of the 5K or 10K pot, the wiper leg B goes to your PS adjustment pin 5 and/or 7 , and leg C to 0v along with sending this 0v to PS pin 11. This results in a voltage range of 0v-5v on leg B. If you add a resistor equal to the pot (5K or 10K to match the pot) between leg C and ground this results in a voltage range of 2.5v to 5v with no other circuits included BUT they don't tell you there is a 6K resistance between pin 5-7, and 11, so there are parallel resistors which change things a bit.

So to get the proper voltage range you want a 5K pot with a 10K resistor between pot leg C and 0v. This should result in a 5v to approx. 2.15v adjustment range.